Season 2 Episode 13
Ben Binversie (00:00:07):
There's a party and everyone's invited. But from the comfort of your own home, please, at a socially appropriate distance.
Ben Binversie (00:00:31):
This is All Things Grinnell. I'm your host, Ben Binversie. On today's show, we launch into the universe of Pink Neighbor with Erik Jarvis and Katie In, two Grinnell alums who came back to live in Grinnell after graduation and became a staple of the creative community here in town.
Ben Binversie (00:00:49):
That's coming up next, after I remind you that the information and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not represent the views of Grinnell College.
Ben Binversie (00:01:06):
Before we get into the interview, a word about the strange times in which we find ourselves. I refer, of course, to the Coronavirus.
Ben Binversie (00:01:33):
Things have changed a lot here in Grinnell, with most students leaving town, and the impending transition to distance learning. The college's response has been swift, and it took a ton of volunteers, staff, faculty, and even other students pitching in to help students get home safely and move them out of the dorms.
Ben Binversie (00:01:49):
It was an incredibly difficult time for many students. The coming weeks and months will be difficult here in Grinnell, but all over the world, as well, as we adjust to the changes necessitated by Coronavirus.
Ben Binversie (00:02:01):
From my vantage point, here on the podcast, I'm trying to do my part to help people connect to Grinnell from wherever they are. The Coronavirus has exposed many of the weaknesses in our education and healthcare systems, but it has also exposed our interconnectedness. It presents a challenge to stay connected while remaining physically apart. And that's where I hope to come in.
Ben Binversie (00:02:21):
I've always wanted the podcast to serve as a way to connect people to Grinnell and to connect Grinnellians with each other. So, I'm thinking about new ways to make that happen and how the podcast can be of service in those efforts. Now, more than ever, perhaps, creative responses are needed. So, feel free to send any ideas my way or even just reach out if you enjoy the show. Get in touch at podcast@grinnell.edu.
Ben Binversie (00:02:50):
Erik Jarvis and Katie In form the main components of the band Pink Neighbor. They graduated from Grinnell in 2012 and 2013, respectively, and have found themselves drawn back to town since graduating.
Ben Binversie (00:03:03):
In addition to Pink Neighbor, they both also have solo projects and pursue other artistic endeavors. Erik is originally from Edmund, Oklahoma, and Katie is from Martin Grove, a suburb of Chicago.
Katie In (00:03:16):
I studied sociology and I took a lot of music classes on the side. Erik says I took the fun music classes.
Ben Binversie (00:03:25):
Erik was a music major.
Erik Jarvis (00:03:27):
Took the fun and not fun, and a lot of writing classes, too.
Ben Binversie (00:03:33):
Like many Grinnellians, they were both involved in a variety of student groups and activities.
Erik Jarvis (00:03:38):
Freesound was a big one.
Katie In (00:03:39):
Con Brio.
Erik Jarvis (00:03:40):
Track and cross country, my first two years.
Katie In (00:03:42):
Asian and Asian American Association.
Erik Jarvis (00:03:45):
Neverland Players.
Katie In (00:03:46):
Mellon Mays Fellow.
Erik Jarvis (00:03:47):
And I worked at Bob's Underground.
Katie In (00:03:49):
And Grinnell Singers.
Ben Binversie (00:03:51):
And that's where they met, in Grinnell Singers. They started playing together a little bit, and then, Erik graduated in 2012, a year before Katie.
Erik Jarvis (00:04:01):
I had applied for the music ninth semester fellowship.
Ben Binversie (00:04:06):
He didn't get it.
Erik Jarvis (00:04:07):
But I had already signed a lease, so I was just like, I'll just do the same thing. So, I bartended at Relish. They had just opened the bar that year. And worked on music stuff.
Erik Jarvis (00:04:20):
So, just like, that year after graduating, I was just kind of doing all the Grinnell art stuff.
Katie In (00:04:26):
We actually went different places at this point in our story.
Ben Binversie (00:04:31):
Erik shipped out of town and moved to the big city of Omaha, Nebraska, the home of Warren Buffet, the College World Series, and a free zoo, which includes the largest indoor rainforest in the United States.
Ben Binversie (00:04:43):
As for Katie, she graduated in 2013 and joined the circus. The Tiny Circus, that is.
Katie In (00:04:53):
Tiny Circus is basically a project that's an experimental way to practice working together with other people without a hierarchy, without a leader. Most often, using stop motion animation as a way to practice that, since it requires lots of hands, and lots of thinkers, and lots of, you know, work.
Ben Binversie (00:05:15):
Carlos Ferguson, an alum from the class of '92, was involved in Tiny Circus since its beginning in 2008. He's also played in the band with Pink Neighbor. He has a home in Grinnell. The polka dot one on East Street. And another one, also polka dot, in New Orleans.
Katie In (00:05:31):
So, I say I kind of lived in New Orleans for what felt like almost a year, but also, was leaving to do workshops at residencies and stuff all over the country.
Katie In (00:05:44):
And then, after that year, I moved to Omaha and lived there for a year.
Ben Binversie (00:05:48):
And then, they both ended up back in Grinnell.
Katie In (00:05:52):
You should talk about why we ended up back here, because that's a funny story.
Erik Jarvis (00:05:56):
Yeah. Well, we were in Omaha, where there are a ton of musicians, but we were kind of looking for a change, and the Grin City Collective residency was still going on. And so, that's kind of where a lot of our friends were involved. And so, we visited that summer, before we ended up back here. And Tom Lacina, who's the arts council director, was working on a musical. And sort of... He's also an attorney, and so we sort of joke that he lawyered me into being in this musical.
Katie In (00:06:41):
He was directing a musical, The Fantastics, that year.
Erik Jarvis (00:06:44):
Yeah. And they had sort of just finished the Loft Theater. So, when we were visiting, he was like, "Oh, you should come check out the theater." And then, he had me sing some songs while we were up there.
Katie In (00:06:54):
It's a sneak audition.
Erik Jarvis (00:06:57):
Yeah. So we, as part of that, we didn't live here, so they were like, "Just do the residency." Because the musical was basically the same time as the fall session.
Ben Binversie (00:07:07):
Uh huh.
Erik Jarvis (00:07:07):
So, they were like, "Just do the residency on the farm, and then, now you live here."
Ben Binversie (00:07:15):
Gotcha.
Erik Jarvis (00:07:16):
Yeah. And we were also kind of wrapping up another album at that time with this group called the Plane Mosaic, that has a lot of Grinnell people involved. But that was being made between Omaha and Quad Cities. So, we were kind of already just, like we never really left that Grinnell community, so it was pretty easy to kind of slingshot back.
Katie In (00:07:42):
Yeah. Back then, there was a lot of creative synergy. I'm going to say that. That sounds silly to me. But there were a bunch of creative projects happening here. There was Grin City, and Tiny Circus, and even Neverland Players, and sort of still retaining connection to the creative projects happening at the college, too, which is kind of a different scene from what's happening in town sometimes, but feeling like we could be in the middle of that. That was just a really nice thing.
Katie In (00:08:20):
That's changed quite a bit, because there aren't as many, I don't know, there isn't as much lately, I think. Which happens. I think these things ebb and flow in college towns a lot. So, that was a major draw for us, at the time. There was actually a pretty big community of people.
Katie In (00:08:42):
And it's actually not just art stuff. It's farming and food stuff, too. Relish. Camal and Laura, and what they do, and how they work with local artists, and support a lot of young people who are trying to make stuff. And also, Jordan Scheibel farms out at Middle Way Farm. And that was the same site as Grin City.
Ben Binversie (00:09:12):
Artist residency. Yeah.
Katie In (00:09:16):
And food is really creative. We talk a lot about the similarities between Jordan's small scale agriculture stuff and being an indie musician.
Ben Binversie (00:09:28):
That's interesting. I've never thought about the parallels between the two.
Ben Binversie (00:09:35):
I know you said, when you came back, you were kind of maybe in the middle between the college and town. Feeling like you could draw and contribute to both of those communities. But how did you kind of carve out your own community? What was the process of doing that? Because it could be easy to come back to your college town and still try to have it be your college experience, but you're not a student anymore. And sometimes that is made painfully aware to you, and you're looking for other things in the community.
Ben Binversie (00:10:08):
So, how did you kind of establish yourself in a new way when you came back?
Katie In (00:10:15):
I think it was a community effort. The sort of origin story of Pink Neighbor has a lot to do with carving out our own community. Our earliest shows were basically, "Hey, we're going to play music at the bar," Which is the Grinnell Pub, but it used to just be called the bar. We put milk and cookies on our first poster.
Erik Jarvis (00:10:41):
That was the image.
Katie In (00:10:43):
That was the image. And someone was like, "Oh, we should make cookies to bring to this thing." So, there was homemade cookies. I don't know.
Ben Binversie (00:10:54):
Wonderful.
Katie In (00:10:56):
At the show. And then, all the people came, and it was like, "Oh, this is fun."
Erik Jarvis (00:11:01):
Then, there were also mini pies and donuts. We did a different treat for each show.
Katie In (00:11:04):
We're like, "This is a good idea."
Ben Binversie (00:11:05):
Just put it on your poster, and then, it just magically happens. Someone around will make the food for you. I've got to try that out.
Erik Jarvis (00:11:11):
It was actually, it was Luke Saunders.
Katie In (00:11:15):
He made donuts. Homemade donuts.
Ben Binversie (00:11:17):
Wow.
Katie In (00:11:17):
Yeah. Amazing.
Erik Jarvis (00:11:19):
And then, that became sort of a pre-show thing, is we would help finish that food project. So, we would go to Luke's a little early and finish that.
Erik Jarvis (00:11:30):
You asked about how we found our community back here. Grinnell is actually really welcoming, to some extent, to newcomers, because it's a college town. If you just go to the coffee shop, or the arts center, any downtown spot where there's activity, it's pretty easy to make connections.
Katie In (00:11:53):
Yeah. I do think there is a culture of people who have grown up here and lived here, or have grown up here and are planning to stay for a long time, in contrast to the college, where there's a lot of turnover. People can't get too used to being in the same place and having these long term futures together, or something. That's just a product of living in a college town.
Katie In (00:12:22):
One thing that we really like is having friendships and relationships with people of all ages in this town, which I think is one of the benefits of living in a small place that maybe, it is really nice to be around people who are in a similar place, with age, or in their careers and stuff, just to be able to talk about stuff. And I value friendships like that.
Katie In (00:12:53):
But also, there's that kind of multi-generational thing that exists, and that's really cool.
Ben Binversie (00:13:03):
Yeah. And we also, with the Mayflower here, as well, we have a large contingent of old people, and a large contingent of young people, and both of those communities have a lot to give.
Katie In (00:13:15):
Yeah. I think since we weren't working at the college or anything, we did kind of have more separation. We still go to things on campus, and still feel connected to it very much, and a lot of our community does work at the college and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's kind of a forced way to have to look at other pockets for friends.
Ben Binversie (00:13:47):
Iowa has a lot of art stuff in general, and Iowa City is worldwide known as a place of arts. But as artists here in Grinnell, what has it been like to kind of have a collaborative, creative community of people in this small place, here in Grinnell? Even just each other. Having each other as creative partners.
Katie In (00:14:15):
Well, we were talking about how living in Grinnell has been like one long residency. I mean, a lot of residencies say, "Come here to get away from the grind of daily life and focus on your art." That's what we've been doing here for the past five years now.
Erik Jarvis (00:14:35):
Yeah. That's kind of a big thing that drew us back is, not that Omaha is a big grind and big, intimidating city, but in Grinnell, there's not a lot of pressure to fit a scene, especially with music, because it's like, well, we're kind of the only working band.
Ben Binversie (00:15:00):
Yeah. You get to make the scene.
Katie In (00:15:03):
Besides Too Many String Band.
Ben Binversie (00:15:04):
Yeah. They have their scene.
Katie In (00:15:05):
They have a lot of gigs.
Erik Jarvis (00:15:08):
Right. But they're not trying to make a living with music.
Erik Jarvis (00:15:12):
And then, there's always great music on campus. So, this is a really cool place to be to just write whatever we want, and I really value that. That's kind of what, I think we've really succeeded in doing that. We've kind of been prolific, and made music that's a little peculiar.
Katie In (00:15:36):
As young creatives, sort of at the beginning of starting Pink Neighbor and stuff, or at least, maybe this is just for me, but when I'm writing stuff, I'm sometimes not sure whether it's, is this something that's coming from me, or is this a reflection of what I think I should be making, based on what's cool at the moment, or what other people around me are making?
Katie In (00:16:04):
And I think that was, for me, a very confusing place, where I'd just kind of spin around and not feel connected to myself. Living here, I've gotten to know myself as a creator a lot better. Not everyone needs this, but I just needed to kind of have some distance from that and figure out who I am and what I want to say.
Katie In (00:16:28):
I don't know if that's Pink Neighbor's story, too, but I think a little bit. We've talked about that before, and have kind of both been on the same page that, for Pink Neighbor's identity to kind of come out of whatever it was going to be, it needed to happen in a way where we could just have a little bit of space to just make a bunch of stuff and see what came out of that.
Erik Jarvis (00:16:57):
Yeah. And then, all the non-musical influences in Grinnell are what really drives Pink Neighbor. We were talking about those early shows, and kind of our music and philosophy is designed to create community. It's not designed to be a look-at-me rock show kind of thing.
Erik Jarvis (00:17:22):
We definitely want to perform well and make good art, but it's also about creating a good experience for other people.
Katie In (00:17:31):
Yeah. There's a lot of stuff to talk about there, just because sometimes the aspects of an indie music scene that are meant to kind of keep people out or be too cool, that's not really our thing. Or, maybe what we've formed as sort of a reaction against that, or maybe just trying to find ways to make participating in art-making more open and inviting, rather than closed off and siloed.
Erik Jarvis (00:18:10):
Some of that is, the people coming to our shows, especially Grinnell shows, but even Iowa, the whole Iowa music scene is pretty small, so the people who come to see us are our friends. They're not, like, a quote-unquote audience. So, it would be weird ...
Ben Binversie (00:18:30):
If you treated it like it wasn't.
Erik Jarvis (00:18:31):
Yeah. I'm not going to, like, Mick Jagger at my friends that I see every day. Good performers can do that, but it's a different kind of thing we're creating.
Katie In (00:18:46):
It's an invitation to be part of the party, in some way, rather than, "Come to my party and watch me do this because I'm awesome."
Ben Binversie (00:19:00):
Do you think that that kind of a sentiment has boundaries or limits? Could you do that in a place that's not Grinnell, or could, if you expanded that and got really big, do you think you'd still be able to manage to create that community aspect?
Katie In (00:19:19):
It's a good question.
Erik Jarvis (00:19:22):
We did a two-week tour when we put our album out, and our route, we picked because we knew people in those places. So, we kind of can pull it off. It's helpful if you have a few plants. It doesn't take many, though. Even just two people who know it, it kind of works.
Erik Jarvis (00:19:44):
We did have a really rough one-off show one time. We played this house show where we didn't know anyone, and the other bands on the bill were not anywhere near the kind of music we make.
Katie In (00:20:01):
Yeah. They were noise bands.
Erik Jarvis (00:20:05):
We listen to literally everything. But there was kind of a culture clash.
Katie In (00:20:10):
Yeah. I think we enjoyed their music, and they were like, "What are you doing here? It's too melodic and too earnest."
Ben Binversie (00:20:19):
Too sincere. Get out of here.
Katie In (00:20:22):
Yeah. Too sincere. Which is, that's okay. We had to be like, "It's cool that we're not for you." But also, it does inform how we want to be, as artists, to be like, "I like what you're doing. I see what you're doing," Instead of being like, "No."
Ben Binversie (00:20:44):
Yeah. I feel like, as a listener, it's much easier for me to get into someone's music if I know they're bringing that kind of energy. A sincere, I don't know, it just invites me to be more generous, as a listener, which is a good thing, also.
Katie In (00:21:04):
Yeah. Maybe a good way to respond to your question about whether there is a limit, or whether it works in different environments, is that it kind of depends on who else is in the room and what they're looking for, too. Because some people aren't trying to have a sincere connection or be around that kind of energy.
Katie In (00:21:30):
But I think a lot of people are. People have said that we respect our audiences. They feel respected, or something, which is cool to hear. Or they feel acknowledged or something. I'm happy about that. That connection is something that a lot of people are looking for, when they go to shows or go out.
Ben Binversie (00:21:52):
What you were saying, Katie, about trying to find unique, creative thoughts that are your own instead of what people might want you to say, or what you think is cool at the time, how do you find those? How do you do the work of digging up an original, creative idea, and then, how the heck do you transform that into a project of some sort? Whether it's a song, or a stop motion picture kind of thing. How does that work?
Katie In (00:22:27):
I've done a lot of thinking and self-work on this because I've had a really tenuous relationship with making throughout my life. It's hard. There's a lot of stuff to weed out or kind of cut through with that. I read a lot of self-helpy books, like The Artist's Way, and stuff like that.
Katie In (00:22:57):
I think having fun people to collaborate with is another thing. It's not something that has to be done alone, despite that urge to not make something out of the intention to just match expectations of what you should make out there. It's something different. It's finding ways to conjure up some cool magic with some other people in the room.
Ben Binversie (00:23:29):
Bring the best out of each other. Yeah.
Katie In (00:23:31):
Yeah. That's something that we've found a nice stride with. And I think part of that whole self-helpy thing is being okay with bringing in influences, and still being a reflection of other things. I'm not sitting here making genius stuff by myself or anything. But to also have a healthier relationship with that, instead of being like, "This is cool, so I'm going to put this out, but it's not really me."
Katie In (00:24:08):
I'm finding what I like, and sticking to that as a way to focus on stuff and make stuff. Which is really simple, but really difficult to do.
Ben Binversie (00:24:21):
Yeah. It sounds simple.
Erik Jarvis (00:24:24):
Yeah. That's a good summary. People say that as, like, you make what you like to input. That's kind of something Grinnell College is really good at, is exposing you to a lot of different kinds of ideas. In the case of studying music, a lot of music, and especially within the student body, Grinnell students are so interesting, and coming from all over the world with these kind of different viewpoints.
Erik Jarvis (00:25:00):
We're in rural Iowa, but we're also in a kind of international community. We went to the college and so, we're taking that with us kind of everywhere. For me, I just try to listen to as much music as possible. The internet is so cool.
Katie In (00:25:22):
You're really good at that. Erik's really good at listening to as much music as possible.
Erik Jarvis (00:25:26):
Yeah. It's really fun. That's kind of what gets me going. If I'm having a rough time creatively, I just listen to music, and then I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I want to make something like that."
Ben Binversie (00:25:43):
What sticks out to you, from your Grinnell experience, as being, that you go back and draw from? Whether it's some intellectual idea, or a group of friends, or a really meaningful experience. What's something that you feel like has stuck with you from Grinnell?
Erik Jarvis (00:26:02):
I think the student-led kind of vibe of everything. My main job, throughout college, was at Bob's Underground, which, for better or worse, was student managed. I liked not having someone just lurking. It's like, I'm going to be on time. I'm going to make these drinks and bagels, and it's going to be okay.
Erik Jarvis (00:26:29):
Particularly, with Free Sound, it's like, "Here's how you set up a sound system and run a show." That idea that you don't really need permission is really kind of important in making art. Especially as an independent musician. We don't have a manager or a booking agent. We have to kind of urge ourselves to just go and do it.
Ben Binversie (00:26:54):
Yeah. That's a good point. I think that maybe entrepreneurial spirit is not one normally associated with small liberal arts colleges, just in terms of the businessy side of entrepreneurial ideas. But in terms of ideas, and thinking, and really putting yourself out there, there's a lot of students that do that.
Erik Jarvis (00:27:13):
Yeah. And the idea of being self-directed, I think.
Ben Binversie (00:27:16):
Yeah. That's big.
Erik Jarvis (00:27:18):
Most of the people I still kind of hang out with were pretty, that was what drew them to Grinnell College. Especially the people who are working in creative fields now.
Katie In (00:27:30):
I agree with that. That was a huge draw for me to come to Grinnell. Just the idea that I wouldn't be as supervised, or treated like a child, you know? I was really excited about that.
Katie In (00:27:47):
I think one thing I still think about and value from that time was having a community of people that, we would just make stuff for no reason and be really silly about it. That laid such a good groundwork for feeling what it was like to be creative and let that out in a safe environment. Sometimes it felt like there were higher stakes. I wouldn't have shared poems, because that's an area that I'm not that confident in, or something, despite writing songs.
Katie In (00:28:22):
But I feel like we would have inside jokes, and those would just turn into these weird creative projects. For some reason, that doesn't, I've talked about this with some friends that I still am friends with, I'm still in touch with. We don't do that as much as adults, or something.
Ben Binversie (00:28:42):
Yeah. There needs to be an output on the end that's valuable.
Katie In (00:28:46):
Yeah. And the self-consciousness about making stuff comes back, or something. Anyway, I just kind of think about that, and I try to access that spirit of making things when I can, when I remember to.
Katie In (00:29:04):
I keep finding relics of that, like little drawings, and Photoshop pictures, and weird things. I go, "What were we doing?"
Ben Binversie (00:29:17):
What were we doing for these four years?
Katie In (00:29:19):
But I get the sense that people still do that. Everyone just does that. It's nice to have people around to do that with.
Ben Binversie (00:29:30):
How did you both meet originally, and then, how did you decide to form Pink Neighbor? Who normally gets to tell the story?
Katie In (00:29:41):
We were aware of each other for a long time, because we played at open mics and stuff at Bob's, and had mutual friends.
Erik Jarvis (00:29:49):
Yeah. We had a lot of mutual friends. For one reason or another, my first year, I may have just not been aware of it, but I don't think the Bob's scene was as active. And then, when Katie's class came in, there were a ton of musicians, and there was a really healthy open mic scene.
Erik Jarvis (00:30:09):
So, that's where I first heard Katie play. Like, Radiohead, and Yeah Yeah Yeahs, and stuff at Bob's open mics. But then, we really met in Singers. That would have been my third year. Katie's second year.
Katie In (00:30:25):
We started playing music together my senior yeah. When Erik was around, after he graduated, and we just played at Relish once in a while. Mostly played covers, and we worked on writing a little bit.
Katie In (00:30:43):
One of our songs that we still play, to this day, was our first song that we wrote together in 2013. So, then, we just kind of kept collaborating on and off after that, because we lived in different places for a while. And then, when we came back and lived here, and we were playing those shows with the food posters, that's when we started writing a little more, I think.
Erik Jarvis (00:31:13):
Yeah. We wrote two real weird songs right before we left Omaha. So, when we came back, we just played under the name Katie and Erik. Because we played here, and everyone knew who we were. But then, we were like, oh, if we ...
Ben Binversie (00:31:32):
Go somewhere.
Erik Jarvis (00:31:33):
Yeah. We need a band name.
Erik Jarvis (00:31:36):
So, we got our band name and released our first recordings in 2016.
Katie In (00:31:44):
Yeah. That's kind of cool to think about how our early songs were so, it took us a long time to write them. We didn't really have the rhythm we have now with writing.
Erik Jarvis (00:31:56):
Yeah. It would take a long time.
Katie In (00:31:58):
And it was hard.
Erik Jarvis (00:31:59):
And a long time between them.
Katie In (00:32:01):
Yeah. Whereas, now, I think we have it, it's more fluid. I guess we've just practiced a lot more.
Erik Jarvis (00:32:10):
Yeah. It's weird when you don't, you don't know what Pink Neighbor is, so how do you write a Pink Neighbor song? But then, after, I feel like, with the album we put out, it's the most cohesive thing we've done, probably including our solo stuff. We both have solo projects that are also pretty eclectic.
Erik Jarvis (00:32:32):
I think it kind of took us a few projects to figure out what our sound is.
Katie In (00:32:39):
Yeah. Well, even that album we put out this past year is not the full picture of what we like, and what types of music we write. Our new stuff is going to kind of be different. I'm excited about that.
Ben Binversie (00:33:00):
How do you both kind of separate but also bring in the individual solo projects that you work on into the Pink Neighbor stuff.
Katie In (00:33:10):
We talk about that and check in about that once in a while.
Erik Jarvis (00:33:15):
Our solo stuff is more introspective and just personal. Slower, sometimes. Pink Neighbor doesn't have a ton of slow songs.
Erik Jarvis (00:33:29):
In the early days, we would co-write all the Pink Neighbor songs, and now we're kind of giving ourself, maybe because of what we were just saying, now we know how to steer it.
Ben Binversie (00:33:41):
Yeah. Where to go for.
Erik Jarvis (00:33:41):
We've been doing a little more separate work, leaning more heavily toward me writing lyrics and Katie writing music. But we kind of have a by-any-means-necessary style of songwriting. There's no right or wrong. We're like, whatever gets us a good song.
Ben Binversie (00:34:02):
You'll take it.
Ben Binversie (00:34:04):
When did you both start playing music, originally?
Katie In (00:34:08):
I started playing piano when I was really little. Really, really young, because my mom played piano, and was a music therapist and a piano teacher when I was young.
Ben Binversie (00:34:21):
Okay. So, music had always been a big part of your life.
Katie In (00:34:25):
Yeah. And I played classical piano as a kid, and competed a lot. And then, I quit that when I became a teenager, and picked up guitar, and started ...
Ben Binversie (00:34:34):
Screw you, mom.
Katie In (00:34:38):
Yeah. I mean, my mom also plays guitar, and she's ...
Ben Binversie (00:34:40):
Okay. So, it was chill. She was like, "Yeah. Okay."
Katie In (00:34:41):
We actually played duets together. Yeah. She supported that.
Ben Binversie (00:34:45):
That's good.
Katie In (00:34:46):
She's still a big supporter. It's sweet.
Erik Jarvis (00:34:52):
I have the same story. I started piano when I was eight. And then, when I became an angsty teen, I also wanted to switch to guitar. But my parents made me keep working with the piano teacher, so I just studied music theory with him, because I didn't want to practice piano. It was like, "Well, you have to learn this, then."
Ben Binversie (00:35:15):
It worked out.
Erik Jarvis (00:35:18):
Yeah. And that's kind of where my interest still lies. If I ever wanted to be in academia, that's what I would do.
Katie In (00:35:28):
Music theory?
Erik Jarvis (00:35:29):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Katie In (00:35:30):
Cool.
Erik Jarvis (00:35:32):
But I'm not going to do that.
Ben Binversie (00:35:37):
Obviously, music has been a big part of both of your lives for a long time and continues to be. Can you put into words what it has meant to you, as a human being, just having that outlet of creative expression, and what it has allowed you to kind of learn about yourself and maybe other people?
Katie In (00:35:59):
It's such a beautiful thing in so many ways, and it's also so scary. It's not predictable, and it's confusing to figure out how it fits in a long term plan for survival, and for making a living, and for having healthcare, and I have to acknowledge that, because that's actually what's on my mind a lot of the time, every day.
Katie In (00:36:37):
But I don't think that's a bad thing, because whenever I've been in more stable situations where I have it figured out, I haven't been happy with that, or something. If I can see the path forward, and it's doing one job every day, I know that's not for me. That's not my plan. Because I kind of really like doing the creative thing.
Katie In (00:37:04):
Anyway, I also think, for what it means to me, I've gotten to know myself a lot better, and I've worked through a lot of stuff. So, it's almost like a spiritual thing, to me, to have a creative process and to have a craft that I can work on. I don't know. It means a lot.
Erik Jarvis (00:37:26):
Yeah. I feel that. I think music's super spiritual. Some of the stuff that we, we get very moved by Beethoven, and those moments where music just makes you laugh, or cry, or something super human and kind of untamed.
Erik Jarvis (00:37:50):
I also like how music can just really drive culture as much as politics. Sometimes more so. And I think a lot of the songwriters I look up to are people who kind of tried to do that. Like, pushed the boundaries for the people.
Katie In (00:38:14):
I think we've often told this, I don't know. A good way to summarize it is music, creating things allows you to imagine the future and put stuff into the world that is some manifestation of that vision.
Katie In (00:38:32):
So, if you're imagining a future that takes into account whatever variables that you think are important and necessary to living more equitably and just lives in the world with each other and other humans, can be such a powerful thing, and an important thing to do.
Katie In (00:38:55):
One of the wonderful things about being a sociology major at Grinnell College was learning about systems, and structures, and learning how to critique them, and break them down, and understand them. But it can be really depressing, because you feel hopeless. You're like, I can't do anything to move this gigantic system in a direction that would benefit more people.
Katie In (00:39:22):
So, creating things has been kind of a way to feel like you can do something. And a lot of people go and do that in other ways that aren't necessary art and music. They work jobs at really important organizations, and organize people, and do fantastic things. This is kind of, what we are doing, I think, takes into account all of that stuff, and also, developing the process, and making stuff.
Ben Binversie (00:39:57):
Yeah. You're honing your skills in the way that you feel like you can contribute to that world, and I do like the idea of kind of, musically, putting out the vision of what you want the world to be.
Ben Binversie (00:40:12):
I was thinking, recently, I was talking with an artist who was visiting here at Grinnell. When I look around, creativity is noticeably lacking, throughout the world, because of what you were talking about. As adults, we kind of push away, and are maybe trained to not be vulnerable, and not be weird, and not have the time or space to be creative.
Ben Binversie (00:40:38):
And I was talking about, I think, in my life, right now, I've pictured creativity as just a wholly positive force. Anywhere we can get more creativity, just bring it on. More is better.
Ben Binversie (00:40:49):
But I was also, he alerted me to the fact that there's a lot of creative people that don't use their creativity for the best reasons. There's a lot of creative people doing things for marketers or ad campaigns that are not maybe good for society, or many people might think they're not good.
Ben Binversie (00:41:07):
So, maybe creativity is a more neutral force than I had naively imagined, perhaps. But it's a tool, and what you choose to do with it is up to you. And whether it's through your music or other forms of art and creativity that both of you pursue, is there anything kind of specific, whether Pink Neighbor or otherwise, that you're trying to project out into the world? Maybe, what does Pink Neighbor's vision of the world look like? Or, just Katie or Erik's?
Erik Jarvis (00:41:41):
Pink Neighbor's is much more pleasant.
Erik Jarvis (00:41:45):
I don't know. I think that utopian would be a fine word to use. I don't think it's a naïve presentation of that, necessarily. In our shows, for example, that's where we kind of have the most control, is when we are performing.
Ben Binversie (00:42:04):
You create the environment, in a way.
Erik Jarvis (00:42:05):
Yeah. And even then, we don't have complete control. If the bartender is in a bad mood, that's going to effect our show. Usually, we put the bartender in a good mood.
Erik Jarvis (00:42:16):
But the idea is just that, we use the term, there's a party and everyone's invited, or something, is kind of the catch phrase. And we mean that. We don't just say that. We kind of try to, if we someone who's never been to our show, we talk to them, and it's like, "Oh, you're a computer programmer? So is this other person who listens to our music. Maybe you can listen to Pink Neighbor while you program together."
Katie In (00:42:49):
There's kind of a scene we've envisioned before. It's a cool, psychedelic, outer space dance party, or something, that people come to, and they have their own costumes that they've made themselves, or something. They feel completely free and comfortable to dance and let loose in front of each other, and stuff like that.
Katie In (00:43:14):
Put that on the Pinterest board. That idea that we're not the only artists in the room, or we're not the only creators or people capable of being creative at those shows. I would love it if, we dress up. We've been wearing kind of costumey things at our shows for a while. And just kind of, think, gives people license to be a little more silly or something.
Katie In (00:43:45):
I mean, we're not the first musicians to ever do that. Plenty of people do that. But it'd be really cool if people showed up to our shows in costumes. That would be a success moment.
Ben Binversie (00:43:58):
That's cool. Do you have any songs, or maybe the newest album that you put out, Time Beach Universe, that you can kind of distill into a creative idea? Do you have any songs that are like, this is what I was trying to put out there with that?
Erik Jarvis (00:44:15):
Out on the block is maybe that song. People nickname it the potluck song. It's out on the block, supper time, stepping in, bring what you've got, everybody's coming.
Erik Jarvis (00:44:29):
That's also a very Grinnell song, and it was written about going places, and then, all your friends show up kind of spontaneously. That's kind of the, there's a party and everyone's invited. Everyone's coming. Bring what you have to offer, and it'll be nice.
Katie In (00:45:08):
That's informed a lot by Tiny Circus, and Neverland, and Grin City. We used to actually have potlucks at Tiny Circus, and Grin City would kind of collaborate on.
Erik Jarvis (00:45:24):
We also start the album and all our shows with a welcome song. That was actually written to make us more comfortable before we got into our set. It's somewhat of a throwaway song, in that it's just acoustic guitar and unison vocals. But it made a huge difference for us and the audience to get clued in. I like that we put it on the album, and it's like, here's what you're going to hear.
Erik Jarvis (00:45:58):
And then, something we noticed recently with our album is there aren't any gender-specific pronouns on it, which is not necessarily easy to do. It is if you're just a little deliberate with your writing, which is how it happened with us. But it's not super common for that form of music, which is cool, and I think it kind of adds a timelessness to it. Not, like, the timeless, going to '60s and '70s is obviously. But timeless into the future is a nice thing to shoot for.
Katie In (00:46:35):
Yeah. There was a lot of music that has really, bad gender roles stuff, and it's like, oh, I like how this song sounds, but I don't want that anymore.
Katie In (00:46:51):
So, when we create stuff, I mean, it's not just gender. It also, we take into account all kinds of things that you have to think about when you're like, oh, does this come across as making fun of this person? Even ideas about healthy relationships, and the idea of possessiveness or ownership is something that we're conscious of not saying or doing.
Katie In (00:47:17):
People can have perspectives on that stuff and write about that stuff, so we don't try to avoid it completely. We just are aware of what we're saying, and how that might come across, and we are reiterating things that are actually harmful? And all that.
Ben Binversie (00:47:34):
That's cool. I didn't notice that when I was listening to the album, but the next time I listen to it, I'm sure I will be aware of it.
Katie In (00:47:40):
Well, it's kind of good that you don't notice. In some ways, it's the bad stuff that sticks out to us now. Stuff that was written 15 years ago that sometimes sounds really outdated, and I think our hope is that you just have a nice listening experience, and not have this ... have you ever watched a movie, and you're like, I watched that when I was 12 and it was really funny, but now-
Ben Binversie (00:48:08):
Yeah. And then, you watch it again, and you're like, "My God."
Katie In (00:48:11):
Yeah. "I can't laugh at that."
Katie In (00:48:12):
So, it's better when there's a seamless engagement.
Ben Binversie (00:48:21):
That's nice. Well, thank you both for taking the time on this lovely first day of March, and thanks for sticking around Grinnell for a while.
Katie In (00:48:32):
Yeah. Thanks for talking to us.
Erik Jarvis (00:48:34):
Thanks.
Ben Binversie (00:48:41):
That was Katie In and Erik Jarvis. They released their album, Time Beach Universe, last year, and it's pretty snazzy. Makes for good listening. All the more so now that we're cooped up in our homes. So, make sure to give that a listen. You've been hearing their music throughout the episode, as well. I've got links to their music, some music videos, and their other creative work, including their solo projects, on the episode webpage. Definitely look them up and follow them on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Ben Binversie (00:49:07):
Last week, they live streamed a concert from their living room and raised money for the Mid Iowa Community Action, and I'm sure they'll be doing some more in the foreseeable future. Also, check out Erik's new solo album, Daydream Moon, which he released on Bandcamp last week.
Ben Binversie (00:49:23):
Katie and Erik have found a strong community here in Grinnell since they were students, and they've also contributed to the artistic community here in so many ways, and their neighbors appreciate that. I reached out to a few of them to hear about their connection with Pink Neighbor.
Jon Edwards (00:49:37):
I'm John Edwards. I've been working at Grinnell College since 2007. I do the international admissions. But I'm also a long time drummer and I have a home recording studio in my attic across the street from Norris Hall.
Jon Edwards (00:49:50):
I first met Katie, actually, during what would have been her first year at Grinnell. I was sitting in with the student band for a show at Loose Hall, in the lounge. Katie and her friend were the openers. It was packed that night, and she was doing some quieter vocal and acoustic guitar type stuff. Everyone there was in awe of her voice. I do remember, a couple of times, at the end of a song, where you could hear a pin drop before people just erupted in applause. Still one of my favorite all-time voices, and I've been a fan of hers ever since.
Jon Edwards (00:50:58):
I had a recorder hooked up to my mixing board that night, so I recorded their set as well as my band's. And then, I ran into her the next morning at Saint's Rest, and was like, "You don't know me, but you were amazing last night, and I recorded your show if you want to hear it."
Jon Edwards (00:51:14):
After that, she came up to the attic a few times to record or to help her friends' projects. She even babysat for my boys. A few other students heard about the studio and would come up to record. Erik even came up once with a friend to do a couple of original songs.
Jon Edwards (00:51:54):
I don't remember exactly if I knew when the two of them got together on the Pink Neighbor project. But they had both graduated and had come back to Grinnell to do music together. They would sometimes use my studio, or they would borrow some gear as they were developing their sound. They would play shows in town, and sometimes I'd sit in if they needed a drummer, which was always fun.
Jon Edwards (00:52:17):
They were pretty instrumental, I think, in getting a live music scene happening here. They were also doing some cool things with the local arts center to promote creativity in a broader sense. They did move away to Omaha for a bit, which was a good artistic move at the time, I'm sure. But we were glad when they came back to make more records, play shows, put on shows for other artists. They teach music and make other important contributions to our Grinnell neighborhood, so we're pretty lucky to have them.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:52:50):
My name is Anna Halpin-Healy and I'm a 2013 grad.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:52:54):
I moved back to Grinnell three years after I graduated, in February of 2016. I was friends with Katie from college, and also knew Erik. We both worked at Bob's Underground.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:53:12):
Pink Neighbor was really a great part of the community to come back to, and the Pink Neighbor shows, which, the first one that I really remember was at Grinnell Pub. Luke Saunders, 2012, made donuts and brought them.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:53:30):
After that, really, the Pink Neighbor shows became sort of a regular check-in to bring the community together. I think that people who end up feeling happiest in Grinnell as non-students are those who build relationships across generations. And the Pink Neighbor shows really help to build community in that way, as well.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:54:00):
The Pink Neighbor ethos of coming together to celebrate community and to have fun, and to embrace silliness, I think that we could all really use those reminders a lot more throughout our lives.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:54:17):
I think one thing that really maybe exemplifies that is their song Nebula, and the dance to go with it.
Anna Halpin-Healy (00:54:48):
I hope that there's a video online somewhere of us doing the dance, so those of you who haven't seen it can see what it's all about. It's really a dance that's fun, and it's all about who you're doing it with, and just getting people up there together.
Emma O’Polka (00:55:15):
My name is Emma O’Polka. Grinnell College class of 2012, and a big fan of Pink Neighbor.
Emma O’Polka (00:55:22):
Of course, I've known Katie and Erik for a while now, I guess. We were all in school together at Grinnell. Erik was a close pal of mine, and Katie, I sort of admired from a distance for her incredible musical talent. It's so cool to see what the two of them have built together, musically.
Emma O’Polka (00:55:39):
They have a really unique and fun sound and aesthetic. I love how many of their songs, their lyrics are rooted in their experience of rural Iowa. The localness of this, in combination with a sound that is loungy and poppy and a bit otherworldly. It's fun. I love it.
Emma O’Polka (00:56:03):
What I think is most impactful about Pink Neighbor, though, really, is their approach to community. I think, as musicians that have chosen to base themselves in this small town, there are a lot of ways they really need to rely on the support of this community to sustain themselves.
Emma O’Polka (00:56:21):
But what I see come through really strongly is actually their desire and drive to use their music to support and enhance the local community. They'll have local community members that sing and play with them, whether they're recording or performing live. There are just so many ways that they're actively inviting us into the performance and trying to create this really inclusive space of sharing creatively. It's a really beautiful thing to see.
Ben Binversie (00:56:52):
Jordan Scheibel is another young alum who stuck around town and got the Grinnell bug. He has a small farm in town, and that's how he connected with his Pink Neighbors.
Jordan Scheibel (00:57:01):
I didn't really know Katie and Erik in college. I knew of them. But I got to know Erik a little bit after college, when he was bartending at Relish. I remember talking to him at Relish one night, and he said he was leaving and moving to Omaha, but that he was going to come back. And I remember thinking to myself, "Yeah, right. Okay. You're going to come back." Because I felt like that was something that people would say, but they really had no intention of coming back to Grinnell.
Jordan Scheibel (00:57:30):
And then, sure enough, a few years later, in 2015, him and Katie came back to Grinnell to do the Grin City Collective artist residency, and they worked on the farm with me, and we sort of immediately started to fall in together.
Jordan Scheibel (00:58:01):
As Katie and Erik launched Pink Neighbor, it felt to me a lot like the way I felt when I started Middle Way Farm, which was, Middle Way Farm was just an idea I had. At the time, I was just an employee at Grinnell Heritage Farm. And I had this idea that I wanted to start a farm, and it felt kind of rash and stupid, and I was a little bit embarrassed about it. Like, where did I get the idea that I could just start a farm, or I could just start something? Because it really felt like I was just telling people I was starting a farm, and that was it. There was no real substance behind it.
Jordan Scheibel (00:58:32):
So, it all felt very fragile and vulnerable. Over time, it's solidified into something real. I actually had seasons of experience behind me. I actually had produced vegetables for customers, where they had made a commitment to me, and I had followed through. So, that feeling faded, but I really remember that, about my lack of confidence.
Jordan Scheibel (00:58:54):
And it's not that I saw that same lack of confidence in Katie and Erik, but I thought that I saw the same thing, when they started Pink Neighbor, it was just this idea that they had, and they just scheduled a show at the bar. They had their first show there. I went to their first show. There was four or five people at the bar. Just the regulars, who probably didn't even know that there was a show going on.
Jordan Scheibel (00:59:14):
And then, it was me, and John Laurel, and Molly Rideout, and Luke Saunders. The other people associated with Grin City. And then, a bunch of what I would call the older arts professors set in Grinnell, who kind of knew Erik because he was in the musical at the time. So, Sig Barber, and Tom and Alicia, and the Hunters.
Jordan Scheibel (00:59:36):
So, they were all there, and we were there, and we were just kind of cheering them on, because we love them, and we like their music. But we were helping them create something. So, to see, over time, them actually build a fan base, both within Grinnell, and then, outside of Grinnell, and get to play 8035, and have gigs in Iowa City and Des Moines, and release albums, and record albums, and start to get some traction in the Iowa music scene, being played on Iowa Public Radio. I have a very warm sense of pride about that, because I felt like I was there at the beginning, and I believed in them in the beginning, when maybe they were even having a hard time believing in themselves.
Jordan Scheibel (01:00:18):
But something that's always impressed me about Katie and Erik is that I felt like, unlike me, they really owned their idea from the start, and they really had a clear vision of what they wanted to do, and they always seemed to believe in it. Whereas I felt like I've really had to, I've really vacillated about my own vision, and what I'm doing with the farm, and it's taken me a really long time to actually build up enough momentum to really feel like I'm going somewhere.
Jordan Scheibel (01:00:42):
And I think, with Katie and Erik, I always felt like they had this really strong creative direction. They always had this really strong skill base. And they just kept getting better, and better, and better.
Jordan Scheibel (01:00:51):
Over the years, we've had a lot of conversations about the similarities between small scale organic agriculture and small scale independent music. There's a lot of overlap. Like I mentioned, starting out, kind of building confidence, building a fan base. The same sort of issues with managing a small business, entrepreneurship. How you relate. What you're doing to the broader economy or capitalism. Are you trying to get big, or are you just trying to create a reasonable livelihood for yourself? Is it possible to kind of shoot that middle gap between struggling and not making any money, and quote-unquote selling out and trying to make it big? We've had that conversation a lot.
Jordan Scheibel (01:01:32):
I think there's a lot of overlap in the kind of people who appreciate the food that I grow and the people who appreciate their music. It's seeking out a locally-produced product. And how my food that I grow comes out of the land, the soil here, my understanding of my farm comes out of the farm history and the place that's here, and I feel like their music has also been informed in that way. It comes out of being here, in this place, and you can hear that in their lyrics.
Jordan Scheibel (01:02:02):
It feels like running a small scale farm in 2020 and trying to be an independent musician in 2020 are somewhat parallel livelihoods.
Ben Binversie (01:02:14):
Music for today's show comes from Brett Newski and Pink Neighbor. If you'd like to contact the show, e-mail us at podcast@grinnell.edu or check out our website, grinnell.edu/podcast.
Ben Binversie (01:02:26):
Make sure you subscribe to the show and pass it along to a friend. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, Ben Binversie. Stay neighborly, Grinnellians