Season 1 Episode 15
Ben Binversie:
Summer is finally here, and so is the season finale of All Things Grinnell. That's right, one last episode to hold you over till the fall.
(singing).
[00:00:30] This is All Things Grinnell. I'm your host Ben Binversie. On this episode, we've got some melancholic moments, heartfelt goodbyes and ruminations on art and life. First, we talk with Mike Latham, outgoing vice president of academic affairs and dean of the college, about his time here in Grinnell and the importance of a global education. Then we get global ourselves, and talk to the language assistant from this past year who descended upon Grinnell from Russia, Germany and Argentina.
[00:01:00] We'll also hear from Ania Chamberlain, who graduated this year. But before she did, put on quite the art exhibit. And then to round out the show, we've got a recap of this year's Summerfest event at the college, which happened last weekend. We've got a lot to cover, so let's get going.
The information and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not represent the views of Grinnell College.
Michael Latham came to [00:01:30] Grinnell in 2014 from Fordham University, and during his five years here, he's championed initiatives such as the Institute for Global Engagement and prioritize making research opportunities available for every Grinnell student. He recently accepted the position of president at his former school Punahou, in Hawaii. It's the largest independent K-12 school on a single campus in the United States. I sat down to talk with him before he surfed on out of town to Hawaii to reflect on his time at the college, and the value of liberal arts and [00:02:00] intercultural education. First, I asked him why he wanted to return to primary school education.
Mike Latham:
Oh, that's a great question. I think there's several reasons. Intellectually and in terms of my own curiosity, I've become more and more interested in that developmental stage of a person's life. A lot of the same issues that we work on at the college level, whether we're talking about teaching people how to learn or looking at intercultural education, [00:02:30] questions about the relationship between technology and learning, questions about social and emotional learning or student mental health. A lot of those things we work on at the college level are also very much in play at this earlier area.
And oftentimes, at that earlier phase of a student's life, you can really move the needle in a powerful way. So, I think I've become more and more curious about that period of development. And I think it really, honestly, it's always been in [00:03:00] the back of my head, in any case. I actually began my work as a high school teacher, and I think that there's something very appealing about having the chance to go back to that.
The other personal side of it is, I know myself pretty well and I like having a steep learning curve. I like having something that's new and compelling and exciting where I'm going to grow and learn a lot in the process. That's part of what I have enjoyed so much at Grinnell. I've learned [00:03:30] a great deal here. But after working in higher education for, it'll be 23 years now, I'm excited about the chance to try something different.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah, yeah. It certainly will be a challenge. What vision will you bring to Punahou and how will your experience at Grinnell impact that vision?
Mike Latham:
I think one of the things that I have become more and more aware of, is [00:04:00] the significance and the importance of pursuing, I think, what we would call an inquiry led approach to teaching and learning. Grinnell does this really, really well. From the very start, students at Grinnell are exposed to thinking about the unanswered questions, the big problems, these spaces for creative interpretation in whatever field that they're studying. They're not given a body of received knowledge or a set of principles or facts that they just commit to memory and at the appropriate [00:04:30] time then [crosstalk 00:04:31]. Exactly.
I think what happens at Grinnell is that you get students involved in the process of discovery, the process of creating knowledge. And I think that way of teaching, that way of engaging students, is something which really can translate well into younger years as well. I think to the extent that you can get students thinking about the unanswered questions, to the extent that you can have a teacher or a professor involved in partnership with students [00:05:00] and looking at things which don't have easy answers or clear results, that's where things get really exciting. I think you can do that in an honest and intellectually exciting way, even with younger kids, and you can talk about what we know and what we don't know and what we still want to explore. That's something Grinnell I think is really well known for and something I'd love to carry on.
Ben Binversie:
So, before you came to Grinnell you taught in history at Fordham, and [00:05:30] from what I gather, you've enjoyed teaching students at undergraduate and high school level a lot and you really enjoy that learning process. I feel like in most careers, not really speaking from experience because this is my second real job, but it seems like the higher up you go in terms of leadership positions, the less you do of the work that got you interested in that field to begin with. So, in your case, you obviously love teaching and then you became a dean and now you're going to president at Punahou, but you're not, unless you're a superhero [00:06:00] principal or something like that, you're not really involved in the day to day classroom learning. You're more dealing with higher level issues, administrative things. Did you feel, during your time as dean, that you're alienated from the excitement of that classroom learning, and is that something that you want to tap into again?
Mike Latham:
I don't think I would say I felt alienated from it. I'm not sure that's the right word, but I certainly miss it. [00:06:30] It's something that, it really was engagement directly in the classroom with students that got me excited about deciding to go get a PhD in history. Got me excited about becoming a historian and a faculty member. I've enjoyed my research. I feel like I've made good contributions to my field, but it's never what really drove me. And that's different.
I have some colleagues who you tell them they're going to be in an archive by themselves with a bunch of documents for six months, boy, that sounds like heaven, [00:07:00] not for me. After awhile, I would start talking to the house plants. It's just, I need to be in an environment where that kind of teaching and learning exchange is happening. So I do miss it. And one of the things that I'm really eager to do at Punahou is to find ways in collaboration with their teachers and having discussion groups with students to get myself back into that direct contact with students. It's not easy to do, because as you know, these other demands are coming at [00:07:30] you. But it's something that I've realized, it's just so important to my sense of who I am and what I want to do that I'm going to have to find ways to get back to it.
Ben Binversie:
What have you learned from working with the faculty here at Grinnell?
Mike Latham:
I think what I've learned is, and I guess what I've been most impressed by is, this is a group of faculty who are constantly asking what they can do to improve their ability to work with students. I've never seen a group [00:08:00] of people more concerned and more attentive to the learning experience of every student in the classroom. I know I'm reaching those students over there, I know they're comfortable, what can I do now to help those students in this other area? What can I do to make my classroom more inclusive? What can I do to ensure I'm reaching and engaging every student? Is there a better way I can improve this? What if I brought in a partnership with this community organization? What if we tried this experiment? That process of constantly renewing and [00:08:30] constantly assessing and evaluating what you do to try to innovate and improve, is something that really stands out.
It's something I've really admired and am eager to, I think, to bring back that ethic to the teachers that I work with in the future. But I think I've been inspired by that vision more broadly in terms of, I mean, Raynard Kington will call Grinnell a learning liberal arts college. Reflecting not [00:09:00] only the idea that students are learning, which we hope they are, but that faculty are learning, and administrators are learning. We're all in the process of constantly trying to learn more about what we do and figure out how to do it better. And that is something that's really, really inspired me.
Ben Binversie:
So, one of the major initiatives you are a part of here at Grinnell was the Global Grinnell Task Force, which led to the creation of the new Institute for Global Engagement. Why was that a priority of yours, and what value [00:09:30] do you see in it for Grinnell students moving forward?
Mike Latham:
Part of the reason I think that's so important is really thinking about the world that our students are going to graduate into. They are graduating into a world that is far more globally interconnected than ever before. Today this big UN Task Force released this major document on biodiversity. It talks about the rate of species loss and what the implications [00:10:00] are of species loss, not only for genetic diversity itself, but the impact upon climate, on agriculture, on economics, on human social relationships. It's a brilliant example of the kind of global issue that is now coming to the fore, that our graduates are going to have to wrestle and deal with. Whether it's climate change or biodiversity or food security or renewable energy or [00:10:30] primary education, global healthcare, these are all questions which don't remain within borders. They're all complicated questions that cross borders and will have an increasingly pivotal effect on students' lives.
So, I think it's our responsibility as a college to graduate students who are equipped to think in global terms, who've had some experience thinking about engaging with, living and studying in other [00:11:00] parts of the world. And I think that, ultimately, Grinnell has moved in the right direction in that regard. I'm struck by the fact that one in five of our students comes from outside the United States, for more than 50 countries. And that means they bring a different set of questions, they bring a different way of learning, they bring a different perspective, and that really enhances the experience for all of our students.
A good friend of mine who's now on the college's board of trustees, Atul [00:11:30] Gupta, arrived in Grinnell from India, from Delhi, in the mid 1980s. You can imagine the transition, from one of the great cities of India to the small town, rural Iowa.
Ben Binversie:
One of the great cities of Iowa.
Mike Latham:
Exactly. You can imagine what that was like. He tells me later, he says, he just recently told me that, his roommates didn't realize it at the time, but by living with him for four years, they were studying abroad. I really liked that framing, [00:12:00] because I think it reflects the opportunity that we have. And so to come up with an institute that looks at the series of overlapping issues, our international students, our off campus study programs, our opportunities to engage with alumni to pursue interdisciplinary teaching, to look at these big global questions through symposia, through faculty and staff development initiatives, we needed an institute which would have the ability to reach across [00:12:30] all these different divisions of the college; administrators, faculty, staff, alumni, development, strategic planning, and make that at the heart of what we did. I think it's a big part of who we are. We need to represent that to the audiences that we look at. Come to Iowa, see the world. That's the message. In all seriousness.
Ben Binversie:
I mean, it's very true. And in my years at Grinnell, that's been one of the things that I value the most, is that we really do bring the world [00:13:00] to our doorstep here in Grinnell.
Mike Latham:
Absolutely. And also, the visiting faculty and scholars that we have from other countries as well. We're building more partnerships with foreign institutions, including some in the global south. This I think is just, it has to be an integral part of what our students experience.
Ben Binversie:
So, recently the college hosted a Global Research and Fellowships symposium where alumni came back to talk about their experiences, and you talked about your experience [00:13:30] or lack thereof specifically in your speech in that realm. But mostly about the process of applying and getting rejected from Fulbright Rhodes, Marshall Scholarships. But you really emphasize the importance of applying to those fellowships and thinking about your interests and how they might coalesce around a certain topic, and also how they align with your community.
So, how do you think about, in that context, your path that you've taken coming from Fordham [00:14:00] to Grinnell and then back to Punahou. Thinking about what your skillset and interests are, and how they align with how you can impact the world around you?
Mike Latham:
That's a really good question. It's a big question.
Ben Binversie:
It is. It is a big question. You can take a second to think about.
Mike Latham:
I think what I've discovered is, I mean, first, and I knew this pretty early, I knew I was really interested in what ultimately our historical questions. I knew I was really interested [00:14:30] in how institutions and cultures and societies evolved over time. Why they changed as they did, what the impact of this was. How our understanding of the past really impacted current debates about the alternatives and choices we face in the present. That became pretty clear to me as early as probably when I was probably 16, 17 years old. Thinking about history as a competing [00:15:00] set of interpretations about the past that they bore on the present, that you could contribute to.
And I think that way of thinking was one that began to just take hold in my mind. It's what ultimately led me to go do a PhD in history. It's what led me to become a teacher of history. I think that way of thinking has stuck with me in many respects. But I think what I also discovered was that I had deeper interests in the [00:15:30] broader process of education itself, and what a liberal arts college in particular ought to be doing in terms of trying to educate its students. How we could do that as effectively as we could. At their very best, the liberal arts really do liberate you. They help you discover interests or talents or abilities that you didn't know that you possessed. And I think they help you realize that the really big important question that you face as a student, as a young person, really is not what am I good [00:16:00] at? That's the question your parents might be asking, "What is this kid good at?"
At times you might be asking that. But for students at a place Grinnell, I mean, these are really terrific students. They're good at a lot of things. The really important question is not what am I good at? The really important question is, what do I care about? What matters to me? What might I be willing to commit myself to? And the only way you answer that question is by engaging in a process of real reflection and discernment. [00:16:30] It requires that you think seriously, not only about what you want, but what's worth wanting and what motivates you.
I think that, I guess what I've realized over time is that, while I've always been interested in history and these changes at the social and cultural level, I've become more and more interested in this process of human development as well. About the way that individuals grow and change and define themselves. I think in approach to education that really [00:17:00] helps students engage in that more reflective process, is really crucial. I think oftentimes we have that sitting in the background, unexamined, undiscussed, and yet surely it's got to be one of the major outcomes of any kind of a goal for what a college or a school should try to promote.
Ben Binversie:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think in our society in general we don't have a lot of time for that reflection. [00:17:30] I think it's true in Grinnell as well, not because of Grinnell is specifically as an institution, but because it's a part of the world that we live in, and it's so fast paced and you're thinking about the homework that you have to do for class tomorrow, you're not thinking about how your coursework from the past couple of years and these other internships or experiences and maybe just who you are as a kid growing up contributes to this vision that you might have for who you are as a person.
Mike Latham:
Yeah. I think that's [00:18:00] true. This was something that Fordham, at various points, could pursue really well. It's something that I think is embedded in some of the history of Jesuit education. I mean, the concept of discernment itself is a big one for the Jesuits. And yet, I would say that that broader frame of reference is one which I think can have meaning and relevance across any kind of a setting; a secular one, like Grinnell's, [00:18:30] a K-12 one, like Punahou. I think this process of trying to get a better sense of who you are and what matters to you and deliberately creating the space and the opportunities to do that, is something we do far too little of, and something that's, I would say, of pivotal importance.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. Now, you didn't get any of those fellowships that you applied for after graduating from Pomona, but since then you have had various international opportunities, for example teaching [00:19:00] in China at Nanjing University. How have your own global experiences influenced your personal development and your ideas about education?
Mike Latham:
That year I spent teaching in China was fantastic. My Chinese students were incredibly brilliant. I was teaching Chinese graduate students, and I was teaching them courses on, really in American history and the history of the Cold War. And to teach, [00:19:30] to talk about the history of American slavery to a group of Chinese graduate students, or to talk about the evolution of the Cold War in the '50s and the '60s to Chinese graduate students, it was just fascinating, because they had such completely different questions, different frame of reference, things that you took for granted that you just assumed everybody understood, they had never heard of before. Things that you felt sure [00:20:00] they would have a hard time with, they got immediately. So, it was, as a teaching experience, incredibly valuable, and really, really exciting.
But the whole process of immersing yourself in a culture that you really don't understand, that the rules and practices and things with shape daily life are really foreign to you in a powerful way, is really beneficial. It creates a [00:20:30] different framework through which you view your own society, and it just changes the way that you perceive the world. While I was there, you may recall, there was an incident in, I think it was the spring of 2001, where an American aircraft, which was engaged in surveillance off the Chinese coast, was involved in a collision with a Chinese fighter aircraft, and was brought down onto Hainan island, and [00:21:00] part of the People's Republic, and was detained there along with the crew. And there was this international incident that began to emerge, "What would China do with this American aircraft? What would they do with the crew? How would this get resolved?"
Suddenly, as this was happening live, the US students and the Chinese students who were at this institute in Nanjing, began to discuss this, in groups, very seriously. And it was fascinating to watch. [00:21:30] What I discovered and what I was most impressed by was, these were students who were roommates. Typically, one US student and one Chinese student were roommates, they were pairs in these residence halls. And a lot of the reason for this was to promote cultural understanding. You get to know somebody pretty well if you shared a room with them. But also language training. They would alternate languages on different days. One day will speak English, the next day it's Chinese. Which was pretty cool.
So these were students who knew each other pretty well, [00:22:00] and they began to discuss this and try to work out what would a possible resolution look like. I was so impressed by the fact that, within a fairly short window of time, even when emotions got fairly heated about this, they reason their way to what began to look like a pretty good diplomatic resolution. And they did so a whole lot faster than Beijing and Washington did. It just reinforced for me the incredible value [00:22:30] of having that experience, of getting to know and live and understand a foreign culture.
I think that Americans, despite our tremendous advantages in terms of economics and our tremendous advantages in terms of our quality of life and, I would argue, other institutional resources, we can also be a very provincial people. The opportunity for Americans to spend time living abroad, [00:23:00] engaging with another culture, it's just priceless. I mean, among the key pieces of advice I would give to any American college student, is to get out of the country, go spend some time abroad, spend at least a semester, spend a year if you can, and go through that process.
Ben Binversie:
So, as we near your departure from Grinnell, what impact do you hope you've had during your years [00:23:30] here?
Mike Latham:
I hope that I've helped the faculty do their jobs even more effectively. One of the things I'm proudest of, is our faculty's commitment to give every student a significant research experience. I think that's really important. Students who get involved in research, there are a number of concrete advantages. They wind up as coauthors on professional journal articles, they deliver papers at regional or national conferences, sometimes the only undergraduate [00:24:00] in the room. When they apply to medical school or law school or graduate school, they can write really compelling personal statements about what they've achieved and what they've done.
The faculty you've supervised them can write really compelling letters of recommendation about their originality and their creativity. But I would say, at a deeper level, when students get involved in research, and David Lopatto actually, psychology professor here at Grinnell has been an expert in promoting this view. When students get [00:24:30] involved in research, they mature intellectually and personally. They become better problem solvers. They develop a higher degree of self confidence. They get better at handling uncertainty or ambiguity. They learn how to make a better argument. They grow and change as people in ways that enable them to thrive in the rest of their careers. They develop precisely the kind of skills and habits of mind and abilities that are going to serve them very well wherever they go and whatever they do. [00:25:00] And to the extent that Grinnell has now made that an integral part of what we do for every student, I think we've deeply enriched the experience of what the liberal arts can provide.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. It seems like a good impact, a good legacy to leave in your time here.
Mike Latham:
Yeah. I'm very pleased, and I give our faculty enormous credit. Doing that work takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of energy, and it's just spectacular what they've done.
Ben Binversie:
Well Mike, thank you for your time [00:25:30] here at Grinnell and best of luck to you in the warm weather in Hawaii.
Mike Latham:
Thank you. Yeah, I've had a great experience here, and I hope to be back often in the future.
Ben Binversie:
Cool. Thank you.
Mike Latham:
Thanks.
Ben Binversie:
Mike Latham served as the vice president of academic affairs and dean of the college since 2014, and will be leaving the college to become the president at Punahou High School in Hawaii.
[00:26:00] Every year, language departments in Grinnell bring in native speakers of that language to help students learn the language and really to learn about the culture. The language assistants, usually students in their own right at the graduate or undergraduate level, live with students in the language houses, teach language and conversation courses and tutor students in the language labs. They bring their perspectives from all around the world to Grinnell, Iowa, the middle of everywhere. And it's fascinating to see how they adapt [00:26:30] to Grinnell as well as how the students embrace them. When I was a student, I didn't realize how much language assistants did on campus, but this year they really made an impact on me and the campus as a whole. So, I sat down to talk with the language assistance from the German, Russian and Spanish departments and reflect on their time in Grinnell.
Carla Wagner:
Hi, I'm Carla. I'm from southern Germany, and I studied cultural studies and American studies. So I'm studying you.
Maria Kustova:
[00:27:00] My name is Maria. I'm from Russia, from Irkutsk near Lake Baikal, and my degree is in economics and management.
Mélanie Izrael:
My name is Mélanie. I'm from Argentina. I am a textile designer.
Ben Binversie:
Grinnell was definitely an adjustment for most of you as you came from big cities, especially by Grinnell standards, and not having access to public transportation was a big difference for you. But I know all of you did make it out of Grinnell. Carla, you and Mélanie went on road trips [00:27:30] with the student group Extreme, Maria you frequented Iowa City for bird watching and took some trips with the Russian department. But thinking about Grinnell, thinking about your experience here over the past year, what are your favorite parts of Grinnell?
Mélanie Izrael:
I can say that my favorite part is the diversity that I went through. Before I come here I didn't know what it was even at school. And most of it is diversity and [00:28:00] doing different things. I'm the kind of person that does a lot of things, I mean a very intensive way, and I had the chance here to do all of them, not just a teach Spanish better, so dance, that is a huge part of my life. And also design things with arts and crafts or designing with the computers. I'm a designer. Spending time with friends, just [00:28:30] talking. I act, and that was a first time thing.
Ben Binversie:
Although you didn't necessarily know that you were going to get into them.
Mélanie Izrael:
No.
Ben Binversie:
I roped you into that one.
Mélanie Izrael:
Yeah, that's true. So yeah, I like ... And also the classes that I took as a student, those were really different. So, I really, really appreciate my experience as a diverse experience.
Carla Wagner:
Talking about the college itself, [00:29:00] I would say that people get the chance here to do so many things outside of their classes, that is not necessarily given at bigger universities. I'm used to going to university as a job, go there and then you go home and you have your life separate from that, because you have friends through the university. But, I love that, all of those extracurricular activities, [00:29:30] clubs that are concerned with so many issues, with social justice and environmental and art things, music things. I think you have a great opportunity to participate in a lot of things and explore a lot of things that don't necessarily have to do with your studies, but they might lead you on to different paths.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah.
Maria Kustova:
Yeah. Well, I agree with you guys. Of course I like the opportunities to engage in a different activities. If [00:30:00] you want to sing in the choir, which I did, you can sing. If you want to play in the theater, which Mélanie did, you can play in the theater, you can dance and dance ensemble. You can, I don't know, organize your own club, film club, even have a philosophy debates if you wish. So, everything you can do. And Grinnell, it's very supportive in this field.
I think another thing which really amazed me, its academical system too. That it's very small place. Grinnell itself it's very remote, [00:30:30] but Grinnell managed gather all the best real experts in their fields. So, every single professor is just really, really talented, engaging, smart people. It was a hard year, I have to say, in terms of studying and teaching at the same time, but it was really comfortable place because there is a lot of accessible resources, nice cozy places. I love library here. We have office too. [00:31:00] So, it's really interesting. I'm really glad that Grinnell happened in my life, with a lot of challenges. But I'm glad because without the Grinnell I think it will be difficult for me to move on my next step. Grinnell prepared me for my next step. So, I really, really appreciate this. Yeah. And the diversity, you're right Melanie. So, there is so many people. I've been working in liberal art college, but it's different system there. So [00:31:30] it was interesting to meet new people with different points of view and learn new things, new culture.
Ben Binversie:
So, you all occupy a unique space because you're half student, half faculty and 100% awesome, cool people that bring your culture and language to the middle of Iowa. But how did it work for each of you finding [00:32:00] your place and your role in the short time that you were here? How did you figure out how to fit in and how did you end up fitting in?
Maria Kustova:
Well, I can say first of all, it's really great that we had each other in the beginning, because we're new, but we are doing similar jobs. Even though then we found our own ways, and we made our own friends, we have a couple of friends in common, but [00:32:30] still it's great that we had the chat in the beginning. I think it helped me, at least, a lot. But then yeah, it's really, really interesting and tricky question. I think we've been solving this puzzle until the very, very end, who are we? Students or teachers? Shall we hang out with professors or shall we hang out with students who are fighting every day?
But then, yeah, it naturally came to me. I was struggling [00:33:00] a lot, especially sharing house with another like nine people, young students who wants to party. And I understand them, and I don't want to be, can I say party pooper or something. But yeah, I was struggling with this, but then, I don't know, friends came naturally from activities and from the things we like, and we still have each other. If we sad or happy, we [00:33:30] can always talk to each other. I mean, language assistance.
Mélanie Izrael:
I think that because we are just one year here, adaptation has to be fast. So in my experience, the first semester was all about adaptation, understanding that we have these double identity here. Some students may not know that we are language assistances, some of our students don't know that we are also students. [00:34:00] For me, in the second semester, was more about not being so concerned about that double identity but more about doing the things that I enjoy and that I need as a human being within my responsibilities. And yes, I'm absolutely agree with Maria that being the three of us together at the beginning, it was really helpful and still we are, and [00:34:30] getting involved with a lot of other people, for me friends and community is the most important thing in order to be stable and happy.
Carla Wagner:
Yeah. I agree with both of them. I grew out of this little language circle to your greater circle of friends, and certainly the best memories we will take out from gatherings with friends I guess, at least for me. But it was also great to be integrated in [00:35:00] the faculty you are, to a certain extent of course. But the faculty meetings and Claire Francis, I can give a shout out for her, because she showed us around, it was a person to talk to. And that shows we're being taken seriously in our role as someone who is teaching and that we're part of this language department. I cannot, of course, only speak for myself, but I think that really helped [00:35:30] to get settled here and also to take on that new role, because for me it was new to teach students and teach students in language, which I have never done. And turned out to be really, really fun.
Ben Binversie:
In one word describe Grinnell and explain the word.
Carla Wagner:
I thought of [Foreign Language 00:35:56], which is surprising. Because to me, it [00:36:00] was really surprising. I didn't even know what I expected exactly, but it was definitely not this. I thought I would search for more opportunities to, I don't want to say escape, but I thought I would search for opportunities to get off campus much more, be by myself. But, it actually was the case. I loved walking somewhere and meeting three people on the way and think [00:36:30] we did. And being in this close community and we're all on the same boat. So yeah, to me it was [Foreign Language 00:36:39], surprising.
Maria Kustova:
So, don't laugh at me, okay?
Ben Binversie:
No promises.
Maria Kustova:
But the word in Russian I will describe Grinnell it's [Foreign Language 00:36:47]. Yeah. So, guess what does it mean?
Ben Binversie:
Crazy.
Carla Wagner:
Crazy, yeah. For me too.
Maria Kustova:
Well, no. It's corn.
Ben Binversie:
Corn?
Maria Kustova:
But listen, [00:37:00] it's not because Iowa has nothing but corn fields, corn because to grow corn, you need to plant it, care for it, fertilize it, be very patient, and then it will bring sweet fruit, right? The same with Grinnell. First, you have to work hard, work a lot within the [Anders 00:37:22] knowledge, will bring many possibilities in life. And this knowledge can be used literally everywhere like corn in America. [00:37:30] The sounds of the word in Russian, [Foreign Language 00:37:36], it's very strong but funny at the same time. So Grinnell has this character of very, how to say, fundamental college because there's really a lot of work, but you still can find a way to have fun and enjoy. And it brings a lot of things for future.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. That's a big metaphor. We might need to unpack that one. That's another conversation. [00:38:00] Okay. So, rapid fire here. What are your Grinnell favorites? Dining hall food?
Carla Wagner:
We should get a little hack for vegans, because like you say, we eat breakfast food and they don't have a lot of vegans. But, the egg section is open. Scrambled tofu is really good on a bagel with some veggies. Vegan hack from the dining hall.
Ben Binversie:
What's your favorite building on campus?
Maria Kustova:
Library. It's really, really nice. Yeah, it's cozy, and especially those, [00:38:30] even though I'm a guest of glass windows because I care about birds, but still it's such a beau-
Ben Binversie:
Well you can watch the words from Burling, it's perfect. You've got your binoculars up there in the jungle gym, looking at all the birds.
Maria Kustova:
True, jungle gym. I was shocked when I came first there. Jungle gym. There's bicycle or something can study.
Ben Binversie:
That's new. That's a newer development.
Maria Kustova:
And those [pews 00:38:52], and the view from the library it's great. So, it's really great place. Yeah. There's a lot of spots where you can find [00:39:00] yourself to study. It's a community in library. People gather, chat when they tired, and it's great. Great science, and the toilets and stuff. A lot of poems there.
Ben Binversie:
Yes, for writing in the Burling bathrooms.
Mélanie Izrael:
I would say that I am between Burling and Bucksbaum, because my favorite classes I took them in Bucksbaum. But what I like the most, most, most, is [00:39:30] when I walk through one to the other, and I got to walk through the grass.
Carla Wagner:
Especially now, it's so beautiful in spring. The part between, what is it, Noyce and Burling, that is the most beautiful place I think.
Ben Binversie:
During my time as a student, I really didn't know any of the language assistants, which is my fault. I'm a stupid person for not having gotten to know them, but I'm sure none of them were of the caliber that all three of you are. [00:40:00] I enjoyed getting to know you all this year, and I will surely miss all of you next year.
Carla Wagner:
Thank you so much.
Ben Binversie:
Mélanie Izrael, Maria Kustova and Carla Wagner were this year's language assistance for Grinnell Spanish, Russian, and German departments. They sat down and talked with me before heading off to new places. Carla, the German language assistant, will take a trip through the Pacific Northwest before heading back to Germany to finish her undergrad degree. Marsha, the Russian language assistant, [00:40:30] will return to Russia, then back to Middlebury College for their summer language program. And then in the fall, enroll as a grad student in Slavic studies at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Melanie, the Spanish language assistant, will join Maria at Middlebury after some travels. And then after that, the future is uncertain, but a return to the states may be in the cards. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Ania Chamberlain, class of 2019, sat down in the Smith Gallery outside of the dining [00:41:00] hall for a week straight, inviting visitors to eat her homemade bread while she drew them. It was performance art, yet there was nothing performative about it. Chamberlain greeted guests with her freshly baked bread and received their time and some enlightening conversations in return. I talked with her after the week long bread extravaganza was over, and she had some time to reflect on the experience. I asked her where the inspiration for this project came from.
Ania Chamberlin:
The final result product felt like a natural culmination of a lot [00:41:30] of things I've been doing or thinking about in art, and then in the anthropology stuff that I've been interested in. But the moment that I had this strong conviction of, "Oh my gosh, I want to sit in a room for a long period of time and interact with a bunch of people." That kind of feeling came right after watching a documentary about Marina Abramovic's The Artist is Present, where she sat in Museum of Modern Art I [00:42:00] think, in New York, for three months, everyday, and made eye contact with everybody who came and sat down across from her.
So, when I was watching the whole documentary, the part that intrigued me most was the endurance and I guess presence that she really had to practice to prepare for that, just to sit there and be with people. And I immediately felt like, "Oh my goodness, I want to do that. I want to see what that feels [00:42:30] like." And then from that initial feeling of wanting to have an experience like that for myself, being with people that I thought, "Okay well, what are all the other elements that I can bring together to make this feel like I would genuinely be there with people?"
Ben Binversie:
So, it's interesting because I mean, there's a lot of ways to do performance art, but in the case of this Serbian artist, she was the exhibition, and for your art it was, people come in [00:43:00] and you are the performance artist in a way, but so are the people. So it's a very collaborative process in a way that most art exhibits are not.
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah. I think, a distinction though with hers, it seemed like, I mean, she's just icon that ... Just the fact that it was her being present was so powerful and emotionally important to so many people who came across the world to sit there and stare into the eyes of Marina Abramovic, [00:43:30] and of course that's not the case for me. So I was not trying to replicate that aspect of it.
Ben Binversie:
Maybe after your exhibit though, you've gained some celebrity status on campus as the bread giver.
Ania Chamberlin:
I definitely know more people.
Ben Binversie:
You're like Jesus, you just turn things into bread and magically make 12 loaves of bread for people.
Ania Chamberlin:
Oh yeah, just magic. Just snap my fingers.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. So, it wasn't magic. Tell me a little bit about the process of making, you said you made [00:44:00] about a dozen loaves each day, so how does that happen? It doesn't just magically-
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah. Well, I just had to give myself a bit more of a strict schedule than honestly I ever have. Because I was like, "Well, I told people I'm going to do this so I have to do this." So I had all the amounts for all the bread. I used sourdough starter, so I would feed the sourdough starter every morning and evening. I would make dough every morning. The dough sets 24 hours [00:44:30] before you bake it. So I really used the bread recipe that I normally use and I just adapted it to fit the schedule.
Ben Binversie:
Lots of early mornings.
Ania Chamberlin:
Yes. Lots of early mornings, lots of late nights doing dishes too, because I feel like flour just poofed everywhere around my kitchen. And it was just like, I didn't have roommates, were great in dealing with that.
Ben Binversie:
Finding it weeks later in your clothes and things like that.
Ania Chamberlin:
Oh yeah. Dough everywhere. Not [00:45:00] really that bad. But, it was definitely, I mean, the most bread I've ever baked in a week. So, it was cool to push myself to do that and see what it's like I guess.
Ben Binversie:
Some artists use oils, maybe watercolors, but bread is one that I haven't seen before as as a medium. Why did you choose bread as your medium of interacting with people?
Ania Chamberlin:
You know how people always joke, "Oh, you want to get people to show up, just [00:45:30] bring food or whatever." And that's like, okay, maybe in a way that is what I was doing, but it's not just, "Oh, I'm bringing this food to get people to come to this other thing," it's like, "No. Thousands of years humans have been gathering around food and that is not something ..." I guess with the bread that is a medium, just a way that I think I have grown up understanding brings people together, so I just [00:46:00] wanted to replicate that.
But yeah, for awhile I was thinking about, "Oh, I love the conversations that come out of dinner parties," but I only invite people to dinner parties I already know, because you can't approach a, I mean, maybe you could, but it's just a lot easier.
Ben Binversie:
Delineate that that's weird to do.
Ania Chamberlin:
Right. Yeah. And so I was thinking, "How can I try to foster these kinds of conversations that get a little [00:46:30] bit below just surface level, daily interactions." And so I think having bread there as a way to show us, if I'm giving someone something I have spent hours making, it's like this nurturing.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. Maybe they'll open up a little bit as well.
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah. But not like, I think, it happened very naturally. I didn't expect that, honestly. I didn't think about what conversation would be like beforehand. I knew I wanted [00:47:00] to do something and give it to people, and I knew that was an experiment. Going into it, the way I was preparing for it I was thinking, "Okay, I need to get ready to improvise for a week." This is whole thing. The improvisation. I've set up the space, I am making this bread. But in terms of what really happens, I don't want to try to control it. And then I just found myself having conversation with people all over the place, and really interesting.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. So, what did you take away the conversations [00:47:30] that you had with people?
Ania Chamberlin:
I think overall being there in the gallery, maybe one thing I realized most is that, in our daily lives at Grinnell, running from place to place, you have a to do list. I feel like, despite the fact that I want to be able to have conversations and connect with people, I am distracted by this thought, "Oh no I have to go there before it closes. Do this, print that book before [00:48:00] I get to class. Do that." And it's just this ongoing-
Ben Binversie:
Barrage.
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah, of things in my mind. Sitting in the gallery being with people, there was nothing else I had to do. I was pretty successful at not thinking about anything outside of ... For that entire week, I was just in this head space of, "All I'm doing is baking bread, being with people." The way that that made me feel in terms of how I was sitting and interacting with people, [00:48:30] it was really nice.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah.
Ania Chamberlin:
Which in a way, I don't know, maybe that sounds like a selfish interpretation of this, because I was the one that had the privilege of just being there and not thinking about homework or whatever. I dealt with that the next week.
Ben Binversie:
I'm sure you had to deal with that.
Ania Chamberlin:
But, I think that feeling that when people came in and they're not wasting my time, nobody was wasting my time. [00:49:00] They were there and sometimes people were like, "Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I just wanted to come again." I was like, "No, you don't have to be sorry." It was great to let people do whatever they wanted. Some people came a bunch, some people came one time and then just said thank you or whatever. Just that whatever people wanted or needed, that was really great I think.
Probably one of, also I think, important part of the whole show is when students would ask, "Is this [00:49:30] a final project that you have to do?" Or they would assume, "Okay, this is requirement. You're fulfilling this thing you have to do." Students were almost always surprised when I said, "No, I'm not going to class for a week." I think one of the things I wanted maybe students to walk away thinking about is, how do they want to be spending their time? You can choose, probably there's some grades in some of my classes it will be a little lower, but when it comes down to it, [00:50:00] you can decide and find a way to step back and do what you need to do for yourself or investigate something that you want to do, not because there's some requirement, when what you want to do requires that you slack or don't do something else that you're told needs to be a priority. It's the feeling of being ashamed that I don't do some part of my homework.
Yes, school is important. Obviously I'm [00:50:30] here for a reason and want to be devoting myself to that, but the feeling that you can't stop and consider whether there's something else that would be important to you, like people, I wanted to push myself to be okay with being "lazy" in my classes. Yeah. I would just feel like a lot of the intensity of academia has been hard for me, but then I'm like, "Wait, why do I have to feel guilty about the fact that this is difficult, [00:51:00] and then I don't always do as well as I feel like I should be?" So, I wanted to prove to myself that I can put my energy towards other things. This whole world of grades, it doesn't have to make me feel good or bad about myself if I'm productive or not. The fact that when you see someone you say, "Hey, how's your day?" And it's like, "Ah, no, it was bad. I didn't get as much stuff done as I should have." And I was like, "Why do you feel bad about yourself? You're still the same human."
Ben Binversie:
[00:51:30] Yeah. Speaking just from my own experience of coming, I know that once I entered that door, I could feel the aura was very different. I wrote in my journal, that night ... I've been trying to practice writing at least one thing down in the journal, even if it's a little thing that I'm grateful for for the day or something that happened. That definitely made the journal. Some of the reasons that you talked about, you took this time to make all this [00:52:00] amazing bread for people and then share it, but the space that you created, there were people that just come in and interact how they wanted to and oftentimes have a nice conversation with just random people that you had never talked to before, that's something that I think is missing from most of our daily lives.
I was thinking about, in my own way, how I could do something like that with the podcast. So, I don't think you should think of your takeaway from it as selfish. Because I imagine [00:52:30] a lot of other people that came through also felt the same way.
Ania Chamberlin:
Thank you.
Ben Binversie:
And so, the drawings that you did, you used basically a mixture of flour and water, and then you put them in the oven. So why did you choose to use that and where the heck did you even come up with the idea to do that?
Ania Chamberlin:
Well, Lee Running, my drawing professor, gave me the idea to draw with red. I mean, I've done series of portraits before with ink and I was like, " [00:53:00] Okay, it's kind of fun." I know that I like doing that. I love working with charcoal. Both of those things I was worried about, okay, what if ink spills, it's messy, it gets on your fingers. And then charcoal, that's really gross to have on your hands if you're going to slice of bread and give it to people. So it just felt like it wasn't a part of the whole cohesive ... And then, yeah, I was talking to Lee about it and she [00:53:30] suggested, "What about flour and water?" I was like, "You can do that?" So I tried it out.
I ended up using my actual sourdough starter because the acidity in the sourdough starter broke down some of the gluten so it was more easy to paint with, otherwise the gluten made it gloppy and sticky. When she suggested that was like, "Oh yeah, that feels like ..." Then just roll with it, and that felt good. And then when I was actually in [00:54:00] the gallery, I think I felt definitely the same way because it was like, "Okay, this table in front of me has a bunch of bread and then a jar with the same stuff that's in the bread." Literally the same life. There's this little yeast in the bread and then the yeast it's going on my paper, and it felt good like that I guess.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah, it was very coherent. So you also hosted a bread making workshop more recently as part of the Center for Prairie Studies, Prairie Artisan Series, and you showed a bunch of us, some students, faculty [00:54:30] and staff how to make your bread, and we tried our own hand at it. I couldn't help but notice that your relationship to bread is just as much art as it is science maybe. And a lot of elements of the bread making process require a knowledge that you can only come by through doing and feeling with your hands as opposed to reading or hearing about it from someone else like yourself. So how do you think about food and specifically bread in terms of art versus science [00:55:00] and combining your academic and intellectual interests with the physical hand knowledge that Jon Andelson is so fond of talking about?
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah. I feel like I think about a lot of things as interdisciplinary way as possible. I think a lot of art processes require you to do it enough so that, as you said, the knowledge is in your body more than in your mind, to really think [00:55:30] and be able to explicitly say what you're doing. But it's just like, the more you do it the more that's a part of your body's ability or movement or whatever.
Ben Binversie:
Muscle memory almost.
Ania Chamberlin:
Right. Yeah. And then the science part, I think I'm just interested in that it helps me understand why certain things are happening with the bread. And it's totally related to my sensory experience of when the sourdough [00:56:00] starter is ready to bake with then, that tangy gassy scent. What is that? I'm just like, can't help but be curious. Maybe what ties them together, I think for me, is the observation aspect of it.
The first art that I guess I really did in college was drawing. What I really liked about that is that you can't lie to yourself and say [00:56:30] that you are observing something. It will be evident on the piece of paper if you are not truly there and seeing what you are looking at, rather than relying on a image in your mind of what you think you're seeing. You can't have this model of going on in your brain, you have to be there and really observe it. So, that process of observation is probably something that's also really important to science. To know what's going on with the bread, to feel the texture, to be able to develop [00:57:00] that intuition. I think that's the observation is important to science and art.
Ben Binversie:
It's a good observation. Yeah. I'm sure you're still making bread for your friends and I know you will continue to do so.
Ania Chamberlin:
I've taken a break.
Ben Binversie:
As you should, as you should. Thank you for coming and talking to me.
Ania Chamberlin:
Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
Ania's reign as the bread queen of Grinnell came to an end as she graduated in May, and this summer she's working with [00:57:30] students on self directed projects to improve a local park before she heads off to Poland in July for a language course.
I mentioned in the interview that Ania hosted a bread making workshop at Grin City Bakery. They just recently opened up shop in downtown Grinnell. We'll hear from them in the fall when we talk to father and son owners, Bill and Andy Mallison. In the meantime, get on over there if you're in town and get your hands on a donut, they're delicious.
School's out for summer. [00:58:00] Grinnell has quieted down since commencement and alumni reunion weekend, but for those people who are staying around town for the summer, there's still a lot going on. Catch a movie under the stars, sit back and relax for some music in Central Park. Get your local foods fix at the farmer's market on Thursday and Saturday. Spend a little time outside in the garden. When you've worked up a sweat from all that hard work, [00:58:30] take a dip in the pool, and then sit down with a good book and a nice cold glass of lemonade as the sun sets.
Summer in Grinnell also means Summerfest. The college's day long celebration of learning and discovery for curious minds of all ages. On June 15th, participants from all around Iowa descended upon campus to [00:59:00] immerse themselves in the academic, cultural, and social atmosphere of the college. From music performances, and academic lectures, to hands on art and handicrafts. The activities run the gamut of interesting topics, and there's something sure to pique everyone's interest. This is the fifth year of Summerfest, which is free and open to the public.
Summerfest brings people to campus from here in town, but also from all across Iowa and beyond. The people who came to my podcast [00:59:30] workshop were from all over the place.
Barbara McKenna:
I'm Barbara McKenna and I came from Iowa City, Iowa.
Orianna McKinnon:
I came from Somerville, Massachusetts.
Sean Forge:
Sean Forge from Kansas City, Missouri.
Billy:
My name's Billy. I was born and raised here in Grinnell, Iowa and I've been coming to this event ever since it was first held.
Cecelia Bagnoli:
I'm Cecelia Bagnoli and I grew up in Grinnell, Iowa.
Kent McClelland:
I'm Kent McClelland, retired faculty member, and I live here in Grinnell at the Mayflower.
Razmeet Samra:
I'm Razmeet Samra, I'm a Grinnell College student. I was working on campus for the summer, so I came on over to Summerfest.
Carmen Ribadeneira:
Carmen Ribadeneira, I go to Grinnell College and I'm working here this summer.
Dan McKinnon:
Hi, I'm Dan McKinnon and I took a plane, a train, an automobile to come to Summerfest from beautiful Somerville, Massachusetts.
Ben Binversie:
The McKinnon family spent the morning doing the Amazing Chase, giving them an opportunity to explore the college and meet some new people.
Orianna McKinnon:
It was fun. It was hard. There were some places that we just found right away and some places we had to dig around, go into a building, go down a hallway, go down more hallways. There were some where you had to go [01:00:30] and high five someone or meet a new person. That was fun.
Barbara McKenna:
I thought that it was incredibly charming and that it really allowed people have a lot of different abilities and sensibilities to participate. We had recently done a similar kind of event at Harvard, so we got a really nice contrast about how this one was all about connecting with people and all about using our senses and about living and enjoying the environment. And the one we did at Harvard was [01:01:00] all about cutting corners and solving puzzles and being first and really chasing. And so it was lovely. It really gave a sense of the culture of Grinnell. So, kudos to that team of people who put that together.
Ben Binversie:
Billy, the seventh grader from in town, loves coming to Summerfest, and was particularly excited for the theater Improv workshop with Sandy Moffitt. Billy is a Summerfest veteran, and there's something new every year that keeps him coming back.
Billy:
I keep coming back because I find lots of new things [01:01:30] to do here, even stuff that hasn't happened before, like we haven't had an acapella performance in the evening like we will this evening with VoicePlay.
Ben Binversie:
While Billy was at the Improv workshop, I went over to the Open Book event, where people acted as books and participants moved around the room listening to the stories of people. Sherry Gupta, a 1988 graduate of Grinnell and the executive director of cultural who put on the program, said that Open Book promotes social cohesion and inclusive communities [01:02:00] through these personal stories. The workshop gave us the time and space to listen and engage with someone who had a story to share, one on one, face to face. My first book was Abe Goldstein.
Abe Goldstein:
On the bottom of [inaudible 01:02:14]. Don't worry, we'll have kosher food. Just because my name is Goldstein does not mean I have any interest in eating kosher food. I like the friends of mine who call me because they going to Israel and want to know [01:02:30] what to see. The hell I should I know? I've never been to Israel. I don't even have the desire to go to Israel. Which brings up the question, okay, why did you [inaudible 01:02:42]? I don't mind kosher food. Matter of fact I salivate at the thought of Graziano's pork chops. I don't want to go to Israel. I have no interest in going to Israel. I hardly celebrate any Jewish holiday.
I didn't require my kids to have [01:03:00] bar mitzvahs. But yep, I've seen the rabbi and the needs of minyan, 10 men to say certain prayers. He knows he can call me and I'll go there. And then, there's a breakfast cafe on the corner of his street where I'll stop for bacon and eggs afterwards. So, it comes back and were handed to you. So, my son who lives in Minneapolis, buys a house in Saint Louis Park in Minneapolis, and rabbi [01:03:30] in the conversation asks my son, "Well [Hayden 01:03:34], what kind of Jew were you raising?" His son looks at you with a smile and looks back at the rabbi and says, "I'm a Goldstein Jew." So the tradition continues.
Ben Binversie:
I didn't get to read all the books, but the ones I did were fascinating, as were many of the other offerings at Summerfest. The lecture on dark matter was a big hit and many kids enjoyed learning with animals from the Blank Park Zoo and doing arts and crafts with the Faulconer Gallery and Quilting [01:04:00] Guild.
With all this activity, we needed some sustenance, and the food trucks hit the spot. Offering freshly squeezed lemonade, Jamaican and Mexican food, as well as some good old American barbecue. And of course Summerfest wouldn't be complete without an ice cream truck.
The weather was beautiful throughout the day, but storms quickly descended upon Grinnell and a sunny day gave way to a stormy night. The final performance of the day had to be canceled, [01:04:30] but with full bellies and mines all around, another successful Summerfest was in the books.
There's still plenty of summer left. Whatever summer means to you, I hope you enjoy and make the most of it. As for the podcast, this episode wraps up season one of All Things Grinnell. The podcast will be back again in the fall for another year of stories and interviews, but I'm taking the summer to make my way through all the interviews I've done this year and come [01:05:00] up with some new stories.
There's a lot to get through and I'm excited to share them with you soon. I've got interviews with some incredible scholars from Grinnell and around the world, as well as a ton of fascinating alumni interviews and some stories about the history of Grinnell, both the town and the college. There's a lot, so enjoy your break, because when we come back we're coming in full steam ahead.
And with that, we'll wrap up this week's episode and the first season of All Things Grinnell. [01:05:30] It's been an absolute pleasure. Music for today's show comes from Brett Newski and Podington Bear. If you'd like to contact the show, email us at podcast@grinnell.edu, or check out our website, grinnell.edu/podcast for more information about the guests from today's show. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. I'm your host, Ben Binversie, stay weird Grinnellians.