Season 1 Episode 2
Sam Cox:
[ 00:00:09] Lisa, your peppers are in that bucket.
Hi, Ben. What can I get you?
Ben Binversie:
I'll take a medium House blend.
Sam Cox:
I've got [00:00:30] a medium House blend.
Ben Binversie:
If you've been to Grinnell, you probably know exactly where I am right now. Also, if you read the title of this episode, you might have a clue. I'm at Saints Rest for this episode of All Things Grinnell.
[00:01:00] This is All Things Grinnell. I'm your host, Ben Binversie. On this week's show, we'll talk with Noga Ashkenazi, class of 2009, who directed the movie Saints Rest, a musical drama filmed and set here in Grinnell. Then, we'll talk with Saints Rest's former owner, Jeff Phelps, and the current owner, Sam Cox, [00:01:30] about how the coffee shop has become a home for so many in the Grinnell community.
This week's show is coming up next after a word from Grinnell College.
The information and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not represent the views of Grinnell College.
Noga Ashkenazi came to Grinnell as an international student from Tel Aviv, Israel, unprepared for the cold winters and unsure what awaited her. During her four years [00:02:00] here, she found a new home in Grinnell. After making a documentary about her experience tutoring inmates through the Grinnell Prison Program, she decided to make a narrative film set here in Grinnell. Noga came back to Grinnell in October for the screening of her movie. We sat down to talk about the film and how she fell in love with Saints Rest.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Well, when I was a student here, I was, as you know, very far away from home. When I found myself spending a lot of time at Saints Rest, I got really close to the [00:02:30] owner and founder of Saints Rest. The owner at the time was Jeff Phelps. He became like a dad to me while here in Grinnell. I come from a big city, Tel Aviv. In Tel Aviv, you have your neighborhood coffee shops, but it's not the same as coming in and knowing everyone around you, and everyone greets you, and Jeff knows exactly my drink and always just takes care of me. It felt like a place where I could call home away from home, so [00:03:00] I really love the atmosphere.
I was blown away by the Too Many String Band concerts there because it was just ... I remember this one night. It was snowing outside, and they were performing. The place was packed. Literally, people were standing, and you couldn't move because it was so packed. They were playing this great folksy music, and the atmosphere, the ambience was just so magical that you could feel the community coming together and it being [00:03:30] a family. So I love that, and I really wanted to capture that feeling in a movie, in a coffee shop where live music is performed and people from the community come to listen to it.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah, that's beautiful. Can you pinpoint a specific moment when you've decided that you were going to make a movie in Grinnell?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yes. I spent my junior year in Paris, and I took some film classes there and kind of fell back in love with film. [00:04:00] Film is what I'd always done back in Israel, but when I came to Grinnell and realized there wasn't a film program here, I became a theater dance major and that took over my life, and I kind of put film aside for a few years.
Then when I went to Paris, I knew that film is what I wanted to do after graduation, and so when I started teaching at the prisons, at the Grinnell Prison Program, I found [00:04:30] the experience so powerful that I felt like this is something I want to document and share with people, and they should meet these people and hear their stories. So I had the idea of making a documentary inside the women's prison while teaching a feminism class and kind of making the film about women's issues in the criminal justice system in a broader way.
Of course, everyone I asked about it said, “No one is ever going to let you bring cameras into [00:05:00] a maximum security prison.” It sounded kind of crazy, but I went to the Des Moines prison administration and pitched my idea, and surprisingly, they said yes. So my senior year, second semester at Grinnell, every week, twice a week, me and a few Grinnell volunteers and my co-teacher, we went to Mitchellville prison with cameras and filmed our eight classes that we taught [00:05:30] there. Four years later, the movie The Gray Area came out.
It was four years of intense labor. I did it while having a full-time day job in LA working in the film industry. I knew that this was going to be my first feature film. If I wanted to be a filmmaker, I just had to make a film, and what was available to me was my experience here in Grinnell, which I thought was really unusual, Grinnell students going into a prison and teaching classes. [00:06:00] I'd never seen anything like that.
Ben Binversie:
This movie, Saints Rest, was your first foray into I guess a non-documentary film.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Right, narrative.
Ben Binversie:
Huge, enormous undertaking.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yes.
Ben Binversie:
And it turned out beautifully.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Ben Binversie:
Was it always going to be a musical? I imagine the coordination of writing a movie script while also writing songs had to be an extremely difficult process. Was there sort of a give and take between the script and the songs?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Absolutely. First of all, yes, [00:06:30] it was always going to be a musical. It's not a musical in the sense of people start singing about their feelings and dancing in the middle of the street. You know, that you think of-
Ben Binversie:
That kind of musical.
Noga Ashkenazi:
... Singin' in the Rain, which I love. But it's trying to bring the musical genre to a more modern time where we wanted the songs to come in and out of the plot kind of seamlessly and organically, so you almost forget you're watching a musical, and the songs just happen naturally within the scene. So yeah, it was [00:07:00] a very big undertaking. Especially since we wanted to do live singing on set, and we didn't want to compromise on the way most musicals are prerecorded, and you just have the actress lip-sync. So yeah, I worked with two amazing composers in Israel for about a year. We wrote the script while they were writing the songs, and so the writing of the story influenced the songs and vice versa. It was a [00:07:30] really awesome creative process.
Ben Binversie:
From what you've told me, this movie was such a collaborative effort.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yes.
Ben Binversie:
Without thanking everybody, can you talk about how it felt to make a movie with help from so many people?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah, if I started thanking people, we would be here all day, so I won't thank anyone. I will just-
Ben Binversie:
You did it all yourself.
Noga Ashkenazi:
... thank everyone. No, I couldn't have done this movie without [00:08:00] having a Grinnell alum, Paul McCulley 00:08:02], who agreed to fund this adventure and believe in me and in the story. Wanting to make a movie about Grinnell, he really saw the vision and was supportive from day one. So that's 100% none of this would happen without him because making a movie costs money.
Secondly, Grinnell College. It's a huge broad thank you, but it's just [00:08:30] they provided us with so much support, logistical support. We stayed in the dorm for a month and a half at main dorms. A 30-people crew just slept in the dorm rooms, and it was quite a unique experience making a movie while living in the dorms. Main Lounge became our war room, or whatever it's called, and we had all our equipment, all our costumes, everything was [00:09:00] all over Main Lounge. We had a piano, we were rehearsing there, we were eating there, Grinnell provided catering services.
A few other business around town, so that was huge. Our associate producer, Todd Linden [00:09:14], who knows everyone around town, helped coordinate with different businesses, and basically, the whole community came out and supported us. They all were extras in the film. We had scenes with 100, 200 extras, and so [00:09:30] people just came and spent the day with us and saw what it takes to make a movie.
Sam Cox, the owner of Saints Rest, she closed Saints Rest coffee shop for a whole week for us. We shot there day and night. It was an incredible experience. We felt very welcomed by the community, and people were excited to seeing a movie being made here. Hopefully, it was a good experience. I know it wasn't easy for people just because there's this whole huge crew that comes in and takes [00:10:00] over parking spots and brings equipment, and some things break in the process, but I hope it was worth it eventually for them.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. Well, based on the showing last night, there was a lot of community support there. So for those people, it was definitely worth it. Did it feel like first year all over again staying in the dorms?
Noga Ashkenazi:
I stayed in the dorms all four years, and I love it. It was amazing. I mean, besides the fact that it was July, [00:10:30] and we had no AC, we were very happy in the dorms. Yeah, it was surreal coming back here as an alum, making a movie, a professional film with all these people, and having it based here in the dorms.
Ben Binversie:
And some of your friends.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
What was it like working with a cast that included some of your friends from Grinnell?
Noga Ashkenazi:
That was the point. For me is to make my first [00:11:00] narrative feature with people who A: I love as human beings; and B, people who I think are super talented and are like me, trying to make it out there as professional artists. So we recruited our friends, some of them are professional actors right now. I co-wrote the script with Tyson Stock, who is a Grinnell alum my year, and he's been my creative partner. He's writing my next film as well. The music director is Brian Cavanagh- [00:11:30] Strong, who went to college with us. So it was just being surrounded by my Grinnell friends. The greatest part was bringing them back here to Grinnell to do this, and eating at all of our favorite restaurants in town, and just hanging out again like college except making a movie. It was great.
Ben Binversie:
I want to talk a little bit about Danny's character because there are some obvious overlaps with you. How much of Danny's character is informed by your experience?
Noga Ashkenazi:
A lot, [00:12:00] actually. For those who haven't seen the film, Danny plays an Israeli young woman who, right now, she went to college in med school in the States. She came from Israel and now is doing her residency here. Her family is all still in Tel Aviv, and she has an American boyfriend, and she's kind of torn between the decision of staying here and marrying this guy [00:12:30] that she loves versus going home, which was always the original plan.
So yeah, there's a lot of me in there. I definitely struggled with that decision my whole time. I spent almost a decade in the States. I went to college here, I lived in LA for three years, then I moved to Illinois. Throughout this time, I was planning on ... I was building a life here in the State, and I had relationships, [00:13:00] but at the same time, home was always Israel. My family was there, and it was really hard having to work my way around the geographical distance. So geography is a huge part of my life and also of the themes of this movie is when sisters find themselves living apart in different states.
In the United States, it's very accepted [00:13:30] to live in a different state from where your parents are. You go to college in the other side of the country, you get a job in a different state, you just kind of move around. Israel is such a small country that if you move further away than 20 minutes from your parents, it's considered really weird, and everyone is so used to being in the same geographical space. So yeah, ultimately, I went back home to Israel where I'm based right, now and that kind of solved that debate in my own personal life. But yeah, [00:14:00] lots of similarities with Danny.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. Also, the dynamic between the sisters in the film, Joni and Allie. You said you have a twin sister, right?
Noga Ashkenazi:
I do.
Ben Binversie:
Who you're very close with.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
Where did you get the idea for those sisters who are really connected by music and Grinnell, but whose lives have diverged quite significantly?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Well, I think the conflict between the sisters was a way for us to discuss [00:14:30] ambition versus contentment. I see that as the central conflict in the film. One sister has dreams that she feels like she cannot live them here in Grinnell, and she has to actually leave town to make them come true, career aspirations, etc. The other one is extremely talented, writes songs, performs them, has [00:15:00] extraordinary talent, but she chooses to stay here. She, herself, is torn between choosing her life and where she should go.
I think that the sisters represent two different life choices, and the audience can find themselves identifying with either one of them, and you always miss out on something when you choose a path. Whether to live in Grinnell for the rest of your life, there's [00:15:30] huge benefits to that. You gain the sense of community, the sense of home. Small town life has a lot of charm and appeal to me. And then, of course, moving to a big city provides more options career wise.
I found myself moving to LA right after graduation. I was really homesick for this type of place. So you always, whatever path you choose, you're going to be missing out on some things, and you're going to sacrifice some things.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. For more than [00:16:00] just Grinnell audiences, this film obviously has quite a broad appeal. It started even showing in a number of festivals, and I know has received quite high praise and recognition along the way, and rightfully so.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Thank you.
Ben Binversie:
There's not a wealth of movies out there about small town Iowa.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Right.
Ben Binversie:
Why do you think your film resonates so well with people who aren't necessarily from Grinnell?
Noga Ashkenazi:
It's a great question. I'm still trying to figure it out. We premiered at a small [00:16:30] town in North Carolina and RiverRun International Film Festival, which is a really well-known festival, and yet it's a small city. The people there, we had three sold out screenings, and we won the audience award there. The responses we got were overwhelming.
Just people really saw themselves in the film, and I think you don't have to live in small town Iowa to see yourself in that conflict that I just described and [00:17:00] have those same questions for yourself, for your own life, and what path you chose, and how far you are from ... I had people come up to me and say, “I have a sister,” or, “I have a brother, and they live a few states from here. The geographical distance is really hard for me.”
So they're touched by different aspects of the film. A lot of people say they were really moved by the music and drawn [00:17:30] to it from that angle. I hope people can find different things to appreciate in the film, and they don't have to be from Iowa.
Ben Binversie:
Certainly. While it does have that appeal, and those themes kind of resonate with everybody, I think it also is really special for the people who are familiar with Grinnell. I know I loved seeing all the scenes in the movie and knowing where they were filmed, and I've been to those places, [00:18:00] and I've done those things there. But it did feel a little different to see them featured in a movie. I'm curious, did it feel like you were rediscovering Grinnell through the lens of a camera when you came back and filmed?
Noga Ashkenazi:
100%, my cinematographer, Matthias Grunsky, who is one of the best working cinematographers out there, and I was really lucky to have him, he's originally from Germany. Well, he's from Austria, he's based in Germany right now. [00:18:30] So him and I are both foreigners coming into this American Midwestern town, and both of us look at it probably a bit differently than what Americans look at because I didn't grow up in an environment like this.
For me, everything from that water tower with the red top, and those alleyways, and just the Grinnell Park, and the bowling alley, which looks [00:19:00] like straight out of a 50s movie. We both looked at those locations as outsiders, and I think that helped bring out their charm and their magic because we were just not used to them. This is not the type of topography we see. So yeah, I saw it with new eyes, and I fell in love with it again.
The house we filmed at, which belongs to the Clower [00:19:30] family here on Broad Street, is, I think, the most beautiful house I've ever seen. When we found that location, and they agreed to let us stay there for a week and film, everyone who sees the movie asks about their house because it's so beautiful, and it's just a house standing on Broad Street. When I was a student, I never noticed it, so now you get to really look at the space. You really look at the coffee shop, you really see things that stand out to you. Yeah, [00:20:00] I love doing it.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah. It was funny, Joni's walk to work in the film is the same walk that I have to work, basically.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Oh yeah, that's right.
Ben Binversie:
Because I live on Broad Street.
Noga Ashkenazi:
That's true.
Ben Binversie:
It was like a little déjà vu there, but I can appreciate the feeling of kind of seeing Grinnell through new eyes even though it's been only little more than a year since I've been gone. It is different coming back and looking at everything-
Noga Ashkenazi:
It's different. Every time is different.
Ben Binversie:
... and appreciating different things. Okay, I want to play [00:20:30] a bit of a game here. I'm going to ask you some of your Grinnell favorites.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yes.
Ben Binversie:
Give me your honest answers.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Okay.
Ben Binversie:
Favorite time of year in Grinnell?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Summer.
Ben Binversie:
Good answer, as we gear up for the winter here. It's going to be brutal.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Oh, my gosh. It was hard for me coming from Israel. I'm freezing at 70 degrees. I cannot deal with this weather, so yeah, definitely summer, beginning of school year.
Ben Binversie:
Favorite study spot?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Favorite [00:21:00] study spot, Saints Rest, but on campus, wow, JRC, the library. I don't even know anymore. I was all over the place.
Ben Binversie:
That's good. That's fun.
Noga Ashkenazi:
The forum, actually. Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
The forum, yeah. It's kind of changed a lot in its history and even probably since you have been here. They've got a digital arts lab there.
Noga Ashkenazi:
I know, yeah.
Ben Binversie:
It's cool.
Noga Ashkenazi:
I was the last class that experienced it as a forum before the JRC became the student center.
Ben Binversie:
Oh, [00:21:30] okay. That's interesting. Favorite restaurant non-café in Grinnell?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Okay. It's between [Chuong 00:21:40] and [Pagliai's 00:21:44].
Ben Binversie:
Okay.
Noga Ashkenazi:
I don't think I'm even pronouncing those names right, but the pizza place and the Chinese place.
Ben Binversie:
The pizza place and the Chinese. There is another. There's a Chinese buffet, China Sea, [00:21:51], but I've never been there.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Oh, I've never been there either.
Ben Binversie:
But Chuong is certainly the popular destination. Favorite building on campus?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Bucksbaum.
Ben Binversie:
[00:22:00] Bucksbaum.
Noga Ashkenazi:
I spent all my time there.
Ben Binversie:
Okay. Favorite professor?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Oh, you're going to get me in trouble.
Ben Binversie:
I'll give you up to three.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Okay. Astrid Henry for Gender and Women’s Studies was a mentor, someone I looked up to, and I admire her until today. Craig Quintero was my directing teacher, and I absolutely loved his class. It was my favorite [00:22:30] class. I'll stop there because I have a long list.
Ben Binversie:
Okay. Favorite food from the dinning hall?
Noga Ashkenazi:
Stir-fry maybe station, do they still have that?
Ben Binversie:
Okay. Yeah, they still have the stir-fry station. Have you been in the dinning hall since?
Noga Ashkenazi:
No.
Ben Binversie:
Are you going to go there today?
Noga Ashkenazi:
I have to. I have to see what's changed. I mean, has a lot changed?
Ben Binversie:
Well, I mean, I wasn't here in 2009, but-
Noga Ashkenazi:
Do they still have all the stations?
Ben Binversie:
... They still have the stir-fry station, the sandwich station, pasta station, all that good [00:23:00] stuff.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah. Okay, we had that.
Ben Binversie:
Did they have the ice cream machine when you were here?
Noga Ashkenazi:
No.
Ben Binversie:
No, okay. They don't have it anymore, but when I was here as a student, they had an ice cream machine like a soft serve machine. But now we've switched back to four containers of ice cream.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah no, I don't think we had that.
Ben Binversie:
Did you have ice cream at all?
Noga Ashkenazi:
I'm sure we did, yeah. Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
Okay, but neither of those fancy options.
Noga Ashkenazi:
But yeah, if there isn't a question then I have to also say big cookie from [00:23:30] the ... If you were not going to ask about the Grill.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah, I guess I didn't ask favorite Grill item, but now we know.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Did you see it in the film though?
Ben Binversie:
I did, and I wrote it down in my notes. I was like, “The big cookie made an appearance!” I was so happy.
Noga Ashkenazi:
It had to make an appearance.
Ben Binversie:
Of course.
Noga Ashkenazi:
But also, in my time, there was only a big cookie, and then I came back here a few years later, there's a huge cookie or giant cookie now. That's new, so I don't know what's going to happen in a few years. [00:24:00] It's going to just grow.
Ben Binversie:
It's going to be a plate. It's going to be a giant, enormous monstrosity of a cookie.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Right.
Ben Binversie:
[Dari Barn 00:24:07] was also featured in the film.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yep.
Ben Binversie:
Do you have a favorite Dari Barn food item?
Noga Ashkenazi:
100%, yes. Coffee flavored ice cream with cookie dough is the best thing you'll ever have there.
Ben Binversie:
Coffee flavored ice cream with cookie dough, wow, that sounds good.
Noga Ashkenazi:
It's amazing. Yeah, is it still open?
Ben Binversie:
I'm going to need you ... Yeah, it's still open, usually until fall break, so you could still catch it today.
Noga Ashkenazi:
I'm going there right now.
Ben Binversie:
It's [00:24:30] not necessarily ice cream weather. Yesterday it was 80 degrees, but today is a little cooler, but I'll eat ice cream if it's ...
Noga Ashkenazi:
Yeah, me too, forget the weather.
Ben Binversie:
Good. Do you have a favorite coffee shop in town?
Noga Ashkenazi:
I don't know. Yes.
Ben Binversie:
Cool. I figured I'd give you that softball to end the interview.
Noga Ashkenazi:
To deny my love for Saints Rest.
Ben Binversie:
Yeah, yeah put you on the spot.
Well, thank you, Noga, for making this film and coming back to Grinnell and sharing it with all [00:25:00] of us, and for coming to talk to me today. I really appreciate it.
Noga Ashkenazi:
Thank you. It's such an awesome project you're doing. I hope this podcast just takes off and that everyone listens to it because you're wonderful at what you're doing, and I wish you all the best.
Ben Binversie:
Thank you, Noga.
Noga Ashkenazi is a Grinnell graduate from the class of 2009. Both the film and the soundtrack will be available for purchase on iTunes and Amazon sometime in early 2019. You can sign up for their newsletter at www.saintsrestmovie.com [00:25:30] and receive updates that way or like them on Facebook at Saints Rest Movie. Links to her trailer and music from the movie are also available on our website, grinnell.edu/podcast.
Here's a little snipped from one of the songs in the movie. It's called Right Now.
[00:26:00] After talking to Noga and seeing the movie, I wanted to get some historical perspective on Saints Rest, [00:26:30] so I talked to Jeff Phelps, the former owner of Saints Rest who was there when Noga attended Grinnell and made an appearance in the film as the hippie guy in the bowling alley.
Sam Cox is the current owner of Saints Rest. I sat down with both of them to see if they could tell me why Saints has become such a staple of the Grinnell community. Jeff took me back to the beginnings of this iconic coffee house.
Jeff Phelps:
We opened up Saints in September 1999. [00:27:00] I owned a liquor store and wine shop before that, and it really wasn't working out real well and decided that we wanted to do something a little different. I'd originally looked at starting a coffee house 10 or 15 years before that, but the consulting company said it wouldn't work in Grinnell. It wasn't big enough, but the demographics kind of changed over those 15 years, and as coffee became more [00:27:30] popular, and so decided to do it. I had a partner at the time that helped finance it, and that partnership didn't work out, so we kind of separated just right after we got it started in September 2009 ... 1909 ... 1999!
Ben Binversie:
1999.
Sam Cox:
1999.
Jeff Phelps:
When did I start the coffee house?
Sam Cox:
(singing)
Ben Binversie:
Saints Rest has been here since 1909.
Jeff Phelps:
Yeah, it's amazing.
Ben Binversie:
And you've been here the whole time.
Jeff Phelps:
The [00:28:00] whole time, since the Mayflower.
Ben Binversie:
Okay, so since 1999, Saints Rest has been serving coffee to sleepy Grinnellians. Jeff, I've heard various stories about the significance of the name. Can you give me the lowdown? Where does the name come from?
Jeff Phelps:
It's really based on a chapter in the late professor Wall's book about the history of Grinnell, even shows up in the movie Saints Rest. There is a scene in the movie where they open the book to Chapter [00:28:30] 4. I can't remember the exact name of the chapter, but it has something about Saints Rest. The Saint and his Rest, I think is what it was called.
But I wanted to have a contest to name the place because I'm really terrible at naming things, and we were getting all the standard things, [Common Grounds 00:28:53], and [The Bean 00:28:55], and all that kind of stuff. I got a call from my [00:29:00] friend Joel Wall, who was professor Wall's son, and he said, “Have you read my dad's book?” I said, “Yeah, I have.” He says, “Well, if you're doing this contest, you need to look at Chapter 4 and reread that and see what you think.” I did, and I loved it.
It kind of in some ways tied in with what I had done before because, as you may know, J. B. Grinnell was a real teetotaler and had all these clauses that if you purchased land from him, you could not serve, [00:29:30] or store, or drink alcohol on that land, or he could take it back. When I decided to switch over, and I saw that name, Saints Rest, I really liked it and decided that that's what it'd be. My friend Joel won a free up of coffee, which he's never come to collect.
Sam Cox:
He'll come collect it from me. That's how it works.
Ben Binversie:
That's what you get for naming rights I guess.
Jeff Phelps:
Exactly.
Ben Binversie:
Sam, how did you then get to know Jeff and eventually become the owner of Saints?
Sam Cox:
[00:30:00] I was a customer of Jeff's first. I would come in because I have loved coffee my entire life, and so I was always flying through to get my coffee on my way to whatever job I was going to. I took a leap of faith back in 2005 and opened a small coffee shop at the Williamsburg Outlet. Jeff was my mentor for that, so he helped me run through all the equipment again and understanding how to use that and how to do things. He gave me a lot of his suppliers. He was incredibly supportive and helpful.
Unfortunately, that one did [00:30:30] not make it, but I feel like that was a great starting point for me to understand how and what I could do when this opportunity came up. We actually had talked about this probably about 10 years ago. It just didn't come to fruition at the time. It wasn't the right time for me, it wasn't the right time for him.
When he came back, six years ago now, yeah, I was sort of working on all of my paperwork, and how am I going to get this financing, and how am I going to do this? By December, we had it all figured out and all ironed out, and I took [00:31:00] over in January ... Well, six years, so where are we at? 2013.
Jeff Phelps:
2013, yeah.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, so he is really the person that's helped me be where I'm at and do what I'm doing.
Ben Binversie:
I was going through a photo book at Saints the other day, and I didn't realize that the art gallery actually used to be a part of Saints name and the logo.
Jeff Phelps:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ben Binversie:
Jeff, can you speak to the role of Saints as an artistic hub of sorts?
Jeff Phelps:
That was really an idea that my partner at the time came [00:31:30] up with. I wanted to put artwork on the wall, and he really didn't want to be involved in running the business at all, but he wanted to have an art gallery in Grinnell, and so we decided that was one of the impetuses for him to become a partner. He hired a woman named [Mindy Bacon 00:31:50] to contact artists and bring in artwork, and then she eventually, as he backed away from the business, she took over the [00:32:00] whole art business. But I thought it was a great idea, and I think you still sell-
Sam Cox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jeff Phelps:
... quite a bit of stuff there. We tried to support mostly local artists, and jewelers, and things like that, people with Grinnell connections. I think one of the first things that we did was we enticed a young photographer from Grinnell College named David Kennedy to bring his photography [00:32:30] in. David's gone on to become a pretty well-known photographer in North Carolina. He's, in fact, produced a book called A Portrait of Grinnell when he graduated. That's an amazing book, I think, and then had a second edition of it not too long after that. So it kind of started as a way for local artists to have a place where they could show their work and maybe make a little bit of money from it.
Ben Binversie:
Sam, how do you see Saints as part of the artistic community here in Grinnell?
Sam Cox:
Yeah, I look at Saints [00:33:00] as an opportunity to just be supportive. I rarely turn anyone away for any reason whether it's they want to put something on our walls, or it's music that they want to perform, or there's a special event and we happen to be the venue. I just feel like we are a communal space, and if I have the space, why would I not offer it up for those who need it or want to utilize it? So that's how it works out for us.
Ben Binversie:
When you took over, I know you changed a few things, but you've definitely kept the spirit of Saints. [00:33:30] How do you think about the legacy that you inherited from Jeff when you took over Saints?
Sam Cox:
Well, I have a fantastic legacy. I mean, I couldn't be more grateful, truly. The funny thing is, the longer I'm there, the more everybody is like, “You're becoming more like Jeff every day.” To which I say it is their fault. It's all their fault. It's nothing to do with Jeff or I because we are angels.
Ben Binversie:
Saints.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, we are.
Jeff Phelps:
Yeah, we're saints. Yeah, there you go.
Sam Cox:
We are saints.
Jeff Phelps:
I like that, yeah.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, for me, it was just about kind of just changing some things into more of who I am and what I [00:34:00] am, and so we took on in-house baking, which is the one thing that Jeff didn't do. We had some bakers through the years, but we took on in-house baking, so there's always stuff that's made from scratch. In fact, that's what I spent my afternoon doing today. I opened up, and Jeff and I went round and round and bet a dinner on this. I opened up a flavored coffee in the coffee shop mostly because I love flavored coffee, which makes Jeff very unhappy, so I bring that in there. I mean, really [00:34:30] it's the same business, just with a slightly different spin. He's a little more calm, I'm a little more wound-up. Yeah, that's just how we roll.
Jeff Phelps:
Well, that's because I'm less caffeinated than you.
Sam Cox:
Right, even then, even then-
Jeff Phelps:
I don't drink nearly as much as I used to.
Sam Cox:
... Yeah. I'd say we're both characters in our own right, just slightly different.
Jeff Phelps:
I agree.
Ben Binversie:
Can you both give me an idea of what makes Saints special to you? I don't know if you feel this way, but I think it bridges the college and the town in a way that few things do.
Jeff Phelps:
I agree with that 100%. [00:35:00] That's one of the main reasons that I wanted to start a coffee house was I wanted a place where people could come and not be hassled. If not, sit together or at least be in the same room together, and it worked out way better than I ever thought it would. Over the 14 years that I was there, I watched friendships develop between people from the Mayflower home, and college students, and business people, and derelicts. [00:35:30] It really worked as a hub, as a place for people to gather.
Sam's done such a great job of making it even more comfortable than I did. The few times that I go in, I got to admit it, over the last six years, seven years, it's been really hard for me to go in. I always felt like I was interfering if I was in the place. Yeah, she always makes that face when I say that. It's just one of those things when you get rid of something that was so important, [00:36:00] and I didn't want to go in and say, “You should be doing that. You should be doing this.” Knowing me ...
Sam Cox:
He might've a time or two.
Jeff Phelps:
But what Sam has done is just absolutely wonderful. It's an extension of that. I think it's even more comfortable now for people than it was when I owned it.
Sam Cox:
Well, thank you Jeff.
Jeff Phelps:
Well, it's the truth. It's just so much fun the few times that I do walk in to see different groups sitting around the table and discussions that range far and wide. I think [00:36:30] it's really important for Grinnell to have a place like that, and I don't think there really is any other place in Grinnell that provides that to the extent that Saints Rest does.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, I would agree with that. What makes it so important to me is probably two things, it's a legacy, right? And it's Jeff's legacy first. As long as the story about Saints Rest will be told, it will always be told with Jeff and who he owned it first because I can remember the people that used to own businesses in Grinnell, and I still remember their [00:37:00] names. That's going to be Jeff, and they're going to remember when Jeff owned it, and then they're going to remember when I owned it, and those two memories are going to melt together, but the most exceptional part of that business is the customers.
My answer to anybody that wants to own a small business is it is not glamorous. It is hard, and it's a lot of stress, and strife, and turmoil. But what makes it all worthwhile are the customers because they're not my customers, [00:37:30] they are my friends, and they are my family. I'm so lucky to get to meet so many young college students, and there's always the special ones in that group that end up being more like your kid, and that you're very fortunate to get to be that parent figure for them when they're having the good days and the bad days.
Also, just the community ties that you make. People that I've never been exposed to before, the professors and the faculty that I would never have seen or had a conversation with have also become friends of mine. I'm so lucky to have that source [00:38:00] of knowledge because even when I have these just strange random questions, I know somebody that I can go track down and be like, “Can you explain this to me?” Because I can't say that I'm an incredibly cultured individual, but I'm so lucky to know so many cultured individuals that I can pick their brains, and that's a great opportunity for anyone and everyone that comes to the coffee shop.
Jeff Phelps:
One of the things that I think about is how many people doubted me when I opened the coffee house in the community. “It's not going to work. Why are you doing this?” I know [00:38:30] you got the same thing when you came in to the point where we wanted this to happen.
Sam Cox:
We had to be creative.
Jeff Phelps:
We had to be creative. We ended up self-financing. My accountant said, “I think that will work. I think it's great.” But then every tax time he says, “Boy, you sure don't want to get it back now?” Or, “Your tax deductibles are going to go crazy if you get it back.”
Sam Cox:
I know nothing about that.
Jeff Phelps:
But it's just one of those things that if you have [00:39:00] faith in something and somebody, you make it work. It worked out great for me. If Sam had paid me all in one big check, I'd spent it in two months, but this way it was a supplemental income before social security kicked in. It couldn't have worked out better for us. The community is what made that happen. I don't think you lost any customers when I left, and I know you gained a whole bunch, a completely different [00:39:30] clientele. That's what I wanted to happen, and I'm sure it's what you wanted to happen too. So we can spin in circles patting each other on the back, but it's really the community that made this place work.
Sam Cox:
Yup, it is, every day.
Jeff Phelps:
Yep.
Ben Binversie:
In the age of Starbucks and Dunkin', these large coffee corporations, how has Saints managed to carve out and maintain such a stronghold here in Grinnell?
Sam Cox:
I recently had this conversation, and Jeff's had this experience [00:40:00] that I really haven't where another coffee shop came in and tried to function. Of course, a small bakery came in that was serving coffee, and you get this moment of panic where you're just like, “How am I going to make it? I can't lose 10%. I can't lose 15%. That's affecting me personally.”
I think that when and if that happens again, and it most certainly will, we certainly will take a hit, but I think what we are fortunate is that we are community and college supported. Even [00:40:30] though those places are going to come and go, it is not my true core. They're certainly going to get business from other people, but those are people that have never come to see me anyway. I feel very strongly about the customers that I have.
Even when I was a customer of Jeff's and the other shop opened, I didn't go to the other shop. Jeff was here first, that was my place, and that's where I was going to go. So it will happen, I have no doubt. The answer is you just keep doing what you're doing, don't alter [00:41:00] your plan. If you're doing it well, continue to do that and just stay the course. If it's meant to be, it will be; and if you're good at what you do, it'll keep going.
Jeff Phelps:
That's the real key, is staying the course. I think when that happened, when the other coffee house opened up, panic is not really the word I'd ... It was sheer just terror. “How am I going to do this? I know how much money I am not making. How is somebody going to siphon off 50% of my business, and how will [00:41:30] I survive?” What happened was that a lot of my customers did go there, and after two or three months, they slowly started filtering back. They started bringing other people with them. It turned out that the competition was actually kind of good in some ways. Obviously, more for Saints Rest than it was for the other place because he didn't make it.
Sam Cox:
Well, and Jeff started with an exceptional product. Our roaster out of Altoona, who's been the same roaster for almost 20 years [00:42:00] now even though they've switched owners a little bit, an exceptional product. I get samples all the time, as did Jeff, of everybody else's coffee beans, and I will tell you that I am truly astounded by what she continues to produce. That is part of what we do.
The other part, of course, would be the scratch-made products that we bring to the bakery area. We're reasonable, we're not crazy expensive, we're moderately priced, it's a small town, but it really comes, in my opinion, down to the product that we [00:42:30] serve. That started with Jeff, and we've been fortunate enough to be able to pass that down to where we are. Other people can come and go, but the answer is they're not serving the same things that we're serving.
Jeff Phelps:
Over ... What? The last 20 years there were actually three roasters involved and three different owners. The original roaster was incredible, but she just couldn't stick to one thing. You never knew when you were going to get deliveries. She was incredible and an incredible trainer. Then [00:43:00] the second roaster was very passionate about it, but decided, when her husband got a job opportunity in another community, that it was time to sell. The woman who took over toward the end of my time is just as passionate about coffee. Those are things, as Sam mentioned, I'm glad you mentioned it, because it's, I mean, that's really the core of it. If we opened up a really nice comfy coffee house and served crap coffee, we wouldn't be sitting here talking to you.
Sam Cox:
There's a reason you guys come off campus. [00:43:30] We have good coffee, no slight.
Jeff Phelps:
Yeah.
Ben Binversie:
Certainly plays a role. What did you both think of Noga's movie?
Jeff Phelps:
I thought it was fantastic. Sam mentioned making friendships with people on campus who would come into the coffee house, and that's exactly what happened with us. Noga came in with her father, her very first day in Grinnell, Iowa. She came in kind of half scared, and she and her father walked up to the counter, and we chatted [00:44:00] for a little while and found out where she was from, and just talked about Grinnell and the community. She wondered off to seat with some other international students that had come in with her. Her father looked at me and said, “I'll never be back to Grinnell. I'll never come back here. You take care of my little girl.”
I kind of felt obligated at that point to stay in touch with her. Noga and I did, and she was in a lot [00:44:30] when she was on campus. I would hear from her even when she was studying abroad. I was just really tickled that that relationship developed.
What she's done with the movie, I can't imagine anything that would serve the community better, that could serve both the college, and the town, and the coffee house. But the story itself is just such a marvelous story. [00:45:00] It's a love story, and I had no idea what she was going to come up with, but it was just really something to see. I really enjoyed it.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, I agree. Jeff was gone when they were filming this movie. I told Noga that it had better be good because she was a pain in my rump. You have no idea what it takes to make a movie. I have no idea what it takes to [00:45:30] make a movie, and I can tell you it is one of the most invasive processes in the entire world when it's shot in your little area of town. But I thought that the town was displayed absolutely beautifully. So many movies you see, and you know it's somewhere that you're familiar with, and it doesn't remind you of that, and I thought Grinnell was showcased really beautifully.
I loved the actors and actresses. I got to know them all. They were really just great, down-to-earth people. To watch the creative process, and [00:46:00] see how it all worked out at the end, and knowing everything that went into that is overwhelming. Yeah, it's a great film, the soundtrack is phenomenal, I absolutely loved. I've seen it twice. I haven't been fortunate enough to be able to get in there any other times because it just kind of gets away from me, but I certainly will buy it when it ever comes out.
But it's so cool to see the place where you work, and you live, and you love on a screen. I mean, on a really personal level, it's really neat.
Jeff Phelps:
And [00:46:30] to have those actresses actually make you feel like they've been there and that it's their place. I think Hani was just absolutely amazing as the owner.
Sam Cox:
Yes.
Jeff Phelps:
I could see of you.
Sam Cox:
She worked with me.
Jeff Phelps:
I could see some of me.
Sam Cox:
Yes, she came and worked with me for a little bit, and I was just cracking up. There's a part in the movie where it is literally my line. I'm like, “Wait a minute. That is me.” It's super funny to see.
Jeff Phelps:
I would echo everything that [00:47:00] Sam said. Especially Hani, and Danny, and the guy that played Michael.
Sam Cox:
It's Michael.
Jeff Phelps:
Yeah.
Sam Cox:
Michael is Michael.
Jeff Phelps:
Michael, yeah. Allie, Allie is the other one that I was trying to think of. They really do just such a fine job of settling in. I mean, it's their place. What amazing people to work with, as you mentioned. I had that one little scene in the bowling alley [00:47:30] as the hippie bowler, and it took all day to film everything that took place in the bowling alley. But it just blew me away to be sitting there during downtime and have Hani just start humming a tune, Allie would just join in, and pretty soon, they'd break out and do a complete duet. Everybody in that place was just, “Oh, my God!” It was just wonderful.
Sam Cox:
Yeah, it's [00:48:00] super neat.
Jeff Phelps:
It really is. How come you weren't in the movie?
Sam Cox:
I did not want to be in the movie. In fact, I'm really upset with Noga. The one picture she took of her and I, I think I had a bandana in my hair, and some bib overalls on, and I was dirty and scrubby. I don't even know what I was doing. I'm like, “That's the one you chose?” That's ... yeah. So no, I didn't want to be in, but I did offer her my famous bib overalls, so I was disappointed that they didn't make it in the movie.
Jeff Phelps:
They didn't make it in, yeah.
Ben Binversie:
Well, with the success of Noga's movie, soon people will be flocking here from all over the country to see [00:48:30] Saints Rest. But in the meantime, thank you both for taking the time to talk with me today.
Sam Cox:
Absolutely.
Ben Binversie:
I appreciate it.
Jeff Phelps:
Thank you for inviting us here.
Ben Binversie:
Jeff Phelps is the founder and former owner of Saints Rest. We were joined by Sam Cox, the current owner of Saints Rest. If you're in town, make sure to stop by and say hi. You can check them on Facebook at Saints Rest Coffee House. For this week's show, I reached out to the alumni community asking them to share their memories of Saints Rest. Here are some of my favorites.
With that, we'll wrap this [00:49:00] week's episode. On the next show, we'll interview some of the guest speakers from the Rosenfield Symposium here at Grinnell, which dealt with the inextricable relationship between sports and society.
Music for today's show comes from [Brett Newski 00:49:13] and AudioBlocks.
If you'd like to contact the show, email us at podcast@grinnell.edu. Find us on Twitter with #allthingsgrinnell, or check out our website, grinnell.edu/podcast for more information about the guests from today's show. Don't forget to subscribe [00:49:30] to the podcast wherever you're listening.
I'm your host, Ben Binversie. Stay weird, Grinnellians.